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  #1891  
Old 12-09-12, 23:51
Buffalo Buffalo is offline
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Wiggins won the WC ITT, remember ?
I don't remember this.
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  #1892  
Old 12-09-12, 23:57
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cineteq cineteq is offline
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I don't remember this.
Of course not, I meant the Olympics LOL!
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The scientific explanation for Vincenzo Nibali's extraordinary descending ability is his large cojones, which lower his center of gravity, enabling him to corner with confidence on high speed descents
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  #1893  
Old 12-10-12, 00:10
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if wiggins didn't have personal wind cutter working for himself he would have lost significant time on la toussuire and maybe even on the peyresourde. don't underestimate the effect to drag on shallow climbs, particularly la toussuire which is for most of the climb more like a false flat. when nibali was up ahead on a group of 4 which was working well together and froome appeared to be cracking wiggins lost somewhere btw 10 and 15 seconds in just a space of a few hundred meters when he was setting his own pace. ofc them froome had his famous nitro boost that had wiggins very close to cracking by the time they reconnected with the nibali group. remember wiggins peddling squares for a while trying to shake the lactic acid out of his legs? that's not what some1 strong enough to close that gap on his own would be doing after closing said gap.


yes he(wiggins) was stronger on PDBF and on the stage piti won where nibali had his trademark bad day (which he so cyclist like blamed on a growing injury on his right leg, in his defense tho he was wearing those strips to hold muscles during the stage where he cracked so there might be some small truth in there) but i wouldn't say he was a stronger climber overall.
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  #1894  
Old 12-10-12, 06:20
movingtarget movingtarget is offline
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I think Wiggins is underrated as a climber. Yes he is more of a diesel but sometimes he gets dropped and claws time back and minimises his losses. He knows what he is capable of. He is a similar climber to Evans, Menchov and co. Nibali often puts in good attacks but gets caught or does not make big time. I like his aggression but he is not a great climber who can attack and attack continuously. Both Nibali and Wiggins have improved and are better all round riders. Be interesting to see what happens over the next season or two for both of them. Nibali should do better at Astana. Liquigas are not the force they used to be.
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  #1895  
Old 12-10-12, 08:37
del1962 del1962 is offline
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If you look at the Verbier in 2009, it was Wiggins that dragged Nibali up the mountain in chase of Contador and Andy Scleck, not Nibali dragging Wiggins.

I don't see how Nibali could take any significant amount of time out of Wiggins in the mountains.
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  #1896  
Old 12-10-12, 08:48
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) but i wouldn't say he was a stronger climber overall.
He wouldnt even need to be. He has 6 minutes to play with. Riders who crack hard on stages often lose less than that.

The fact that he actually outpwrformed.nibali on the upholl finishes where a strong team is the least imporrant, just smashes to pieces this idea that in a individual race nibalo would win.
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  #1897  
Old 12-10-12, 09:11
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Because there was nothing stopping Nibali following Froome and Wiggins on Peyragudes.
Actually Nibs had a muscle contracture that day (right leg triceps if I remember). After the stage he said he didn't crack but simply suffered for that. The next stages he wore a bandage on it (it was clearly visible during the ITT).

That said I'm not claiming anything. Just for the sake of the supposed truth.
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  #1898  
Old 12-10-12, 09:34
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Actually Nibs had a muscle contracture that day (right leg triceps if I remember). After the stage he said he didn't crack but simply suffered for that. The next stages he wore a bandage on it (it was clearly visible during the ITT).

That said I'm not claiming anything. Just for the sake of the supposed truth.
i actually thought he was already wearing those bandages on the stage where he cracked but you are right he only wore them the following day.

i am actually eager to see the wiggin vs nibali battle at next years giro. the route doesn't lack tough mountains unlike the tour and still has an early huge time trial where wiggins can gain minutes. and wiggins won't have the best climber in the race working for him there nor will nibali be alone after just a couple k's of climbing. so i think the battle for the win will be much closer then it was at the tour.
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  #1899  
Old 12-10-12, 10:15
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cineteq cineteq is offline
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The fact that he actually outpwrformed.nibali on the upholl finishes where a strong team is the least imporrant, just smashes to pieces this idea that in a individual race nibalo would win.
Weak argument. Wiggins needed a team to get fresher to the end of the stages. All of the sudden you and airtream are dismissing the importance of having a team just because? If anything Nibali wouldn't have won because of the muscle pulled, but who's to say he would have had it if Wiggins had no team, i.e. no Froome.

PS: I suggest you watch Run Lola Run
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The scientific explanation for Vincenzo Nibali's extraordinary descending ability is his large cojones, which lower his center of gravity, enabling him to corner with confidence on high speed descents

Last edited by cineteq; 12-10-12 at 10:21.
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  #1900  
Old 12-10-12, 11:16
airstream airstream is offline
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How do you suggest he defends without working on the front? Contador won it in 2010 by reacting to Andy's attacks and sealing it in the ITT. Wiggins would have never been able to pull that off that first part, even with climbers less skilled as Andy. We actually saw that happen. Without Froome pulling him back, who knows what would have happened and how much time he would have lost. He would also have been more tired by the time the final ITT arrived.
Because he was the MJ, then state of things absolutely suited him and he could ride how he wants. The main problem is to arrange proper carnage strong teams are needed (we had no them by Sky, and we would have had no them without Sky. It could have been a lame team powerlessness). Strong climbers are often not enough. In addition to gain a lot of time strong climbers must work together and overly consensually which is hard to assume 'cos very likely they ride in different teams. I absolutely sure even Schleck and Contador, working together, are not able to give 3-4 Tourmalet during a GT, because no matter how one would like to overrate ones and belittle others, the contention among 5-6 best climbers when they are on form is VERY tight. The 2011 Giro and the 2012 Tour were rather exceptions in this regard.

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He would also have been more tired by the time the final ITT arrived
How about tiredness of hypothetical attackers, ah? IMO, to attack is much more energy-intensive than to sit behind Wiggins, isn't it?

You reason like if strong climbers offered an intensive torn tempo with lot of attacks, it would have demoralized Wiggins and he would have given up. It is not so. I think he could quietly have sat behind other climbers. He could sit probably behind all but Nibali and VdB sometimes. If like of Pinot had tried something, Wiggins even wouldn't have budged.

Last edited by airstream; 12-10-12 at 11:20.
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