Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara? - Page 21 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > Professional road racing

Professional road racing A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

View Poll Results: Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?
Boonen 76 52.05%
Cancellara 70 47.95%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 12-10-12, 00:42
Parrulo's Avatar
Parrulo Parrulo is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,881
Default

hitch stop being rude and condescending to other posters or you will receive a warning maybe even a ban as you have been doing it to any1 that disagrees with you for a while all over the forum.

also particularly funny to see you calling out some new poster on this thread(sorry to said poster but i didn't fix the name) and froome19 on another thread for being "new cycling fans" when in fact from what i recall(please correct me if i am wrong) you have seen a grand total of one of tom boonen's PR wins live. . . . would you be happy if i used that very same argument to prove how your opinion that cancellara's is better then boonen was wrong just because i have watched all 4 of his wins?

anyway let's all behave including me.
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 12-10-12, 01:42
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 22,577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrulo View Post
hitch stop being rude and condescending to other posters or you will receive a warning maybe even a ban as you have been doing it to any1 that disagrees with you for a while all over the forum.


also particularly funny to see you calling out some new poster on this thread(sorry to said poster but i didn't fix the name) and froome19 on another thread for being "new cycling fans" when in fact from what i recall(please correct me if i am wrong) you have seen a grand total of one of tom boonen's PR wins live. . . . would you be happy if i used that very same argument to prove how your opinion that cancellara's is better then boonen was wrong just because i have watched all 4 of his wins?

anyway let's all behave including me
.
I dont see anything in the rules saying I cant be rude to people. Nor has anyone ever been in trouble for being rude to me.

Its actually quite bizzare and Orwellian even to castigate me for saying " I wasnt even talking to you" when the poster has accused me of talking to him in something I said, when I was in fact directing my post at someone else.

Take a look through the history if you wish, I was responding to Pistrolleros response to Afrank.

So when the poster accuse me of "mocking him" when i wasnt even talking to him, can you think of a better response than " I wasnt talking to you?"

As for the 2nd part of your post youve actually made a lot of assumptions about me and my posts and arguments, despite only having bits of information. Youve filled in the blanks yourself.

For example

Assumption 1

Quote:
have been doing it to any1 that disagrees with you for a while all over the forum
Am I being rude to people, yes?

Does that mean I am rude to "everyone who disagrees with me?" or even people who disagree with me in general? no, i have been rude(ish) to a couple of posters this week. But all of them have been rude to me too.


If you are going to treat being rude as an offense then you can can go back through about 10 000 forum posts between me and El P and get us banned from all future publishing sites for life.

And while your at it, you should send a request to Al gore to have the man behind the Ryo Hazuki account banned from all the internets.

To take the whole thing entirely literally, you can look through this thread or all my posts even, and see that unless I have a beef with someone then I do not treat them , whether they argree with me or not, with rudeness nor condescension and for the most part follow the golden rule.

Hell just 3 minutes ago i pressed "post reply" in a response to my mortal enemy cineteq where I behaved in a manner most befit a gentlemen.


Assumption 2.
Quote:
froome19 on another thread for being "new cycling fans" when in fact from what i recall(please correct me if i am wrong) you have seen a grand total of one of tom boonen's PR wins live. . .
Correct, I only saw Boonen win once (09 I didnt see this Boonen win since I switched off the tv in anger)

But yes you are right I am a relatively new at watching all but the Tour since i only got cable 4 years ago, though i did follow the sport away from the tv before (not religiously though)

That is the correct bit. The incorrect assumption you make with that information is that my attack on Froome was an attack on new cycling fans or an attack on their opinions.

The attack on Froome was part of a wider conflict going back to May, when Froome responded to someone who had praised one of my thread intros from last year by saying that he could easily do better.

Its perfectly natural that when someone says that, but has no writing talent of his own, and has an omniscient correction posting style but thinks that Igor Anton is a mountain only climber who has never shown half the hill climbing skill of Danny Moreno, I will hit back.

The fact that he was not rude to me in the very thread in which I responded does not mean that my response was not unprovoked.

Assumption 3

Quote:
would you be happy if i used that very same argument to prove how your opinion that cancellara's is better then boonen was wrong just because i have watched all 4 of his wins?
BTW You cant "prove" an opinion wrong that way, only call it into question. Nor was I attempting to prove Froome wrong, i was mocking the concept of Contador having to show Froome he is good enough for him.

But more importantly if you looked through my posts in this thread I already aknowledged in about 10 of them that Boonen was better before 2010 and my entire argument the whole time has been that Cancellara is better in the present.

So if you want to keep hitting me on that point, keep hitting. The rest of my army is half way to China.
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.

Last edited by The Hitch; 12-10-12 at 01:51.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 12-10-12, 01:43
Scott SoCal's Avatar
Scott SoCal Scott SoCal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
You are ridiculing a misrepresentation of something I said (or rather, did not say). Most people would take that personally.

I am mostly just irritated, since knee-jerk responses to certain posts, and angry responses to things that were never even said, have derailed the actual discussion. Let's start again:

I don't think Cancellara is as good at positioning or strategy as Boonen is, and that's why Boonen is the better cobblestone rider.
I'm not sure I agree with the last sentence. While no expert I have seen both of them at RVV and PR since 2008.

Tactically, they race differently. Boonen is rarely far from the front and FC tends to ride up and down the group. I think FC has more raw horsepower than does Boonen and I think they both know it. FC rides like he can do anything he wants, anytime he wants. Boonen rides to conserve until its time to race, which is smart.

It's not better necessarily, it's just different tactically. I can point to different times in both races where, over the years, they have both made poor tactical moves... and brilliant ones.

They are both superior to everyone else. If they are both going well Cancellara wins more often than Boonen. My opinion.
__________________
Instigating profanity laced tirades since 2009.
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 12-10-12, 02:53
El Pistolero's Avatar
El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 14,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
I'm not sure I agree with the last sentence. While no expert I have seen both of them at RVV and PR since 2008.

Tactically, they race differently. Boonen is rarely far from the front and FC tends to ride up and down the group. I think FC has more raw horsepower than does Boonen and I think they both know it. FC rides like he can do anything he wants, anytime he wants. Boonen rides to conserve until its time to race, which is smart.

It's not better necessarily, it's just different tactically. I can point to different times in both races where, over the years, they have both made poor tactical moves... and brilliant ones.

They are both superior to everyone else. If they are both going well Cancellara wins more often than Boonen. My opinion.
This makes me wonder if you ever saw Boonen race.

Cancellara sure as hell doesn't go well that much if he's supposed to win more than Boonen.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 12-10-12, 03:38
auscyclefan94's Avatar
auscyclefan94 auscyclefan94 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,838
Default

This would have to be the closest legitimate poll on this forum yet. Forum totally split on the question.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggercuz View Post
second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 12-10-12, 04:01
ElChingon's Avatar
ElChingon ElChingon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: En el Internet, and Hiding from the UCI
Posts: 5,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auscyclefan94 View Post
This would have to be the closest legitimate poll on this forum yet. Forum totally split on the question.
Both are great, it just boils down to who one favors for any random thing, either one would be a welcome guest on a fantasy Cobblestone Team.
__________________
CyclingNews Forum Member Number 1. (verified)
All my posts are of my own opinion.
October 10, 2012 The Reasoned Decision
Points: 10 CN Infraction Points
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 12-10-12, 04:25
Scott SoCal's Avatar
Scott SoCal Scott SoCal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
This makes me wonder if you ever saw Boonen race.

Cancellara sure as hell doesn't go well that much if he's supposed to win more than Boonen.
Been watching Boonen since he was working for Hincapie.

Cance oozes horsepower. Boonen doesn't. I think it's one of FC's problems. How many times have you seen FC try to win from the front? Maybe over-confidence or whatever. And that's not a dig at Boonen... he's spectacular. But I don't remember anyone accusing Boonen of having a motor on his bike, do you?

And to be clear, Boonen was damned fortunate to win RVV this year. If Pozatto was a little more aware on the last time up the Paterberg, Boonen gets third. But he won and he crushed a poor tactical effort from Sky at PR. He won and nobody can say different.

In 2010, FC rode Boonen off his wheel. Until Boonen does that to FC, mano a mano FTW, then I'll take the guy who can and does throw down the chili.
__________________
Instigating profanity laced tirades since 2009.

Last edited by Scott SoCal; 12-10-12 at 05:14.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 12-10-12, 10:51
Netserk's Avatar
Netserk Netserk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 11,869
Default

Quote:
6. no insulting other members. This includes counter-insults ("he started it").
. .
__________________
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Landis
Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider.
Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 12-10-12, 14:27
El Pistolero's Avatar
El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 14,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
Been watching Boonen since he was working for Hincapie.

Cance oozes horsepower. Boonen doesn't. I think it's one of FC's problems. How many times have you seen FC try to win from the front? Maybe over-confidence or whatever. And that's not a dig at Boonen... he's spectacular. But I don't remember anyone accusing Boonen of having a motor on his bike, do you?

And to be clear, Boonen was damned fortunate to win RVV this year. If Pozatto was a little more aware on the last time up the Paterberg, Boonen gets third. But he won and he crushed a poor tactical effort from Sky at PR. He won and nobody can say different.

In 2010, FC rode Boonen off his wheel. Until Boonen does that to FC, mano a mano FTW, then I'll take the guy who can and does throw down the chili.
Boonen is often the first one of the favorites to drop the bomb in many cobbled races. The Taaienberg for example is his hill and he always attacks on it in races like Omloop het Nieuwsblad and the E3 Prijs Harelbeke. He doesn't ride conservatively at all. Always does his fair share of work in a break, if not the most work of everyone...

Boonen has dropped Cancellara many times before and you're only describing one year: 2010. You're ignoring everything else. Cancellara has only been that strong in 2010. He didn't even drop Boonen at Roubaix that year. He waited till he was at the back of the group to attack.

Pozzato gave everything he had on the Paterberg. Boonen only dropped a meter and quickly made contact again. It was because of a gearing problem. We would see Boonen at the back of the group quite a lot and he even made contact with the team car to check out his gearing system. He couldn't switch gears anymore and was stuck on a big one.

Cancellara was also damned fortunate to win Roubaix in 2006 when nobody marked him yet and a train made sure no one was ever going to get back to him.

Seems people base their whole Cancellara stand point on one race: the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2010. The 2008 Paris-Roubaix was just as much a mano a mano battle as that one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 12-10-12 at 14:48.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 12-10-12, 14:49
Scott SoCal's Avatar
Scott SoCal Scott SoCal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Boonen is often the first one of the favorites to drop the bomb in many cobbled races. The Taaienberg for example is his hill and he always attacks on it in races like Omloop het Nieuwsblad and the E3 Prijs Harelbeke. He doesn't ride conservatively at all.

Boonen has dropped Cancellara many times before and you're only describing one year: 2010. You're ignoring everything else. Cancellara has only been that strong in 2010. He didn't even drop Boonen at Roubaix that year. He waited till he was at the back of the group to attack.

Pozzato gave everything he had on the Paterberg. Boonen only dropped a meter and quickly made contact again. It was because of a gearing problem. We would see Boonen at the back of the group quite a lot and he even made contact with the team car to check out his gearing system. He couldn't switch gears anymore and was stuck on a big one.

Cancellara was also damned fortunate to win Roubaix in 2006 when nobody marked him yet and a train made sure no one was ever going to get back to him.
Quote:
Boonen has dropped Cancellara many times before and you're only describing one year: 2010. You're ignoring everything else. Cancellara has only been that strong in 2010. He didn't even drop Boonen at Roubaix that year. He waited till he was at the back of the group to attack.
Bad tactical error on Boonen's part, eh? And while Boonen didn't get much help chasing FC, he sure didn't bring him back, did he? If FC had been in Boonen's group at PR this year Boonen never, ever would have went that far out and we all know why.

Quote:
Pozzato gave everything he had on the Paterberg. Boonen only dropped a meter and quickly made contact again. It was because of a gearing problem. We would see Boonen at the back of the group quite a lot and he even made contact with the team car to check out his gearing system. He couldn't switch gears anymore and was stuck on a big one.
Pozatto was setting tempo. Had he known Boonen was getting popped there would have been a different result.
__________________
Instigating profanity laced tirades since 2009.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.