Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012) - Page 268 - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2671  
Old 12-12-12, 17:02
mountainrman mountainrman is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewbaccaD View Post
But let me give a tease of where I am going with this: And yes, there will have to be a shoehorn used (that is what attorneys and law students do), but this situation fits much more clearly here than the statutes you keep relying on. Just substitute the word "contractual" for "statutory" and you will see where this goes. And I have never said anything was a slam dunk. Just that you were looking behind the wrong bush. And when this all rolls out, I think we will see that was clearly the case.
Chewbacca - the opinions I state may be inept - but they are not mine They belong to some of your better qualified and supposedly more competent brethren!

Ever since the qui tam suit started there has been legal opinion questioning whether it is a hammer being applied to a screw, because of the various issued raised. The false claims had no impact on the amount of publicity they got for the money. It would not have been cheaper had they known.

Sio we can only wait for a lot of meaningless drivel from lawyers then a judge to roll a dice on the matter, then at appeal , and only then will we find out how the law can be abused in this case.

I hardly think that an essentially bankrupt company can talk about who else is damaging their publicitiy! They seem to be good at that themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #2672  
Old 12-12-12, 17:06
ChewbaccaD's Avatar
ChewbaccaD ChewbaccaD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 4,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrman View Post
Chewbacca - the opinions I state may be inept - but they are not mine They belong to some of your better qualified and supposedly more competent brethren!

Ever since the qui tam suit started there has been legal opinion questioning whether it is a hammer being applied to a screw, because of the various issued raised. The false claims had no impact on the amount of publicity they got for the money. It would not have been cheaper had they known.

Sio we can only wait for a lot of meaningless drivel from lawyers then a judge to roll a dice on the matter, then at appeal , and only then will we find out how the law can be abused in this case.
Sympathy for the criminal...no, the abuse here was by Armstrong and Bruyneel. You keep missing the people who deserve enmity here and instead place it on those just upholding the law. There is a motive behind that, and it's apparent to everyone. Because Wonderboy and The Hog procured funds by false pretenses, and some of that money was mine. I want people who do such things to be punished for their lies, and also to serve as a warning to others to not abuse the system in that same way. There may be no other case like this one, but that is true of any case really. Your suggestion is based on Napoleonic Code or something because you want this to play out: If there is no statute or case exactly like this, then the case cannot be tried. Here, in the US, we do things a little differently (well, except for Louisiana), and cases that are not exactly like others (where there is clearly fraud, false pretenses, or other violations or laws) are tried for the good of society based on trying to discern (with the law that is there), the best remedy. Sorry you don't like that, but it produces much more just outcomes than the system you seem to favor.
__________________
ChewbaccaDefense Esq., Attorney for the HaterEight

Last edited by ChewbaccaD; 12-12-12 at 17:14.
Reply With Quote
  #2673  
Old 12-12-12, 17:22
frenchfry's Avatar
frenchfry frenchfry is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bourgogne
Posts: 1,685
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewbaccaD View Post
Sympathy for the criminal...no, the abuse here was by Armstrong and Bruyneel. You keep missing the people who deserve enmity here and instead place it on those just upholding the law. There is a motive behind that, and it's apparent to everyone. Because Wonderboy and The Hog procured funds by false pretenses, and some of that money was mine. I want people who do such things to be punished for their lies, and also to serve as a warning to others to not abuse the system in that same way. There may be no other case like this one, but that is true of any case really. Your suggestion is based on Napoleonic Code or something because you want this to play out: If there is no statute or case exactly like this, then the case cannot be tried. Here, in the US, we do things a little differently (well, except for Louisiana), and cases that are not exactly like others (where there is clearly fraud, false pretenses, or other violations or laws) are tried for the good of society based on trying to discern (with the law that is there), the best remedy. Sorry you don't like that, but it produces much more just outcomes than the system you seem to favor.
Do you have a major in troll feeding?

As you pointed out, the scoreboard would prove you right, the rest is just useless babble.

Lancey-poo is on a downward slide to oblivion. Anything else is almost irrelevant.
__________________
"C'est une triste chose de songer que la nature parle et que le genre humain n'ecoute pas" - Victor Hugo
Reply With Quote
  #2674  
Old 12-12-12, 17:26
mountainrman mountainrman is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewbaccaD View Post
Sympathy for the criminal....
Chewbacca. Rule for life. First read. Second comment - do not assume you understand your opponents position until you have actually read it. You will not make a good lawyer until you do!

Because -
I have never expressed sympathy for either Armstrong or Bruyneel - other than in the context of the JB information should not be in public domain before a hearing!

I entered many of the threads not to contest the sanctions against armstrong but to comment on the ridiculously low sanctions for GH and LL, and the wrongful lifetime sanction given to Rasmussen by the back door because the sport plays too many "favourites"

If they are guilty they deserve proper sentence according to the rules. No more and no less, no favourites. No scapegoats. No blacklists.

And that should be your position as a lawyer too.

I have protected to the hilt their right to justice and to proper treatment within the rules.

I am a fan of justice not either of them, and certainly not of the vindictive and nasty UCI, nor a process which hops into US law because it does not like the rules. They should amend the code to make it self stand - and in the light of all CAS rulings - it should not be necessary to invoke US law.
They should clean up the clearly blurred lines of jurisdiction, and the process has to be changed so that prosecutors cannot be judge too, and so that country federations cannot protect the Spanish and attack the Danes. It should not matter where you live.

The scoreboard does not matter. The score board as it would be if all cases were taken to proper opinion does. This case on SOL was not. It is absurd that Riis still has a TdF title despite admitting cheating, (because of SOL) when Armstrong does not. It is proof of injustice , not justice. Ends do not justify means.

I have seen what happens when the "guilty at all costs" rabble get their way when someone I knew who was innocent , and ultimately proved so, was destroyed by the presumption of guilt in athletics. No doubt she would have been vilified in the clinic too, on the fact of suspicion and charge, before the defence got a chance.

That is why proper process matters to me.

You have misread my position because you are too quick to attack anyone who disagrees with you.

Last edited by mountainrman; 12-12-12 at 17:36.
Reply With Quote
  #2675  
Old 12-12-12, 17:36
DirtyWorks's Avatar
DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,809
Default Late

I'm VERY late on this story, but news suggests there are Wonderboy documents released by the courts. Does anyone have links?
Reply With Quote
  #2676  
Old 12-12-12, 17:40
Fortyninefourteen's Avatar
Fortyninefourteen Fortyninefourteen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
I'm VERY late on this story, but news suggests there are Wonderboy documents released by the courts. Does anyone have links?

http://www.scribd.com/RaceRadio/shelf
Reply With Quote
  #2677  
Old 12-12-12, 17:58
skippy's Avatar
skippy skippy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 424
Send a message via Skype™ to skippy
Default

Clicked onto this thread thinking that something interesting might be appearing ? i find there are two adults having a childish spat . Normally it costs me 300kb , to raise as page BUT today 22MB disappear ! Thought there was a " personal message " facility for people to use to resolve disputes ?

Whether chewy or the goat is right or wrong is of no concern to me , BUT , 25+pages of a spat , when LA has just been " advised by UCI " , is a fraud on my time and resources !

Now going to look for Adults discussing relevant material !
Reply With Quote
  #2678  
Old 12-12-12, 18:03
ChewbaccaD's Avatar
ChewbaccaD ChewbaccaD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 4,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrman View Post
Chewbacca. Rule for life. First read. Second comment - do not assume you understand your opponents position until you have actually read it. You will not make a good lawyer until you do!

Because -
I have never expressed sympathy for either Armstrong or Bruyneel - other than in the context of the JB information should not be in public domain before a hearing!

I entered many of the threads not to contest the sanctions against armstrong but to comment on the ridiculously low sanctions for GH and LL, and the wrongful lifetime sanction given to Rasmussen by the back door because the sport plays too many "favourites"

If they are guilty they deserve proper sentence according to the rules. No more and no less, no favourites. No scapegoats. No blacklists.

And that should be your position as a lawyer too.

I have protected to the hilt their right to justice and to proper treatment within the rules.

I am a fan of justice not either of them, and certainly not of the vindictive and nasty UCI, nor a process which hops into US law because it does not like the rules. They should amend the code to make it self stand - and in the light of all CAS rulings - it should not be necessary to invoke US law.
They should clean up the clearly blurred lines of jurisdiction, and the process has to be changed so that prosecutors cannot be judge too, and so that country federations cannot protect the Spanish and attack the Danes. It should not matter where you live.

The scoreboard does not matter. The score board as it would be if all cases were taken to proper opinion does. This case on SOL was not. It is absurd that Riis still has a TdF title despite admitting cheating, (because of SOL) when Armstrong does not. It is proof of injustice , not justice. Ends do not justify means.

I have seen what happens when the "guilty at all costs" rabble get their way when someone I knew who was innocent , and ultimately proved so, was destroyed by the presumption of guilt in athletics. No doubt she would have been vilified in the clinic too, on the fact of suspicion and charge, before the defence got a chance.

That is why proper process matters to me.

You have misread my position because you are too quick to attack anyone who disagrees with you.
You mistake not reading for not believing. I don't believe your protestations regarding Wonderboy or The Hog. As for the rest, SSDD.
__________________
ChewbaccaDefense Esq., Attorney for the HaterEight
Reply With Quote
  #2679  
Old 12-12-12, 18:04
ChewbaccaD's Avatar
ChewbaccaD ChewbaccaD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 4,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy View Post
Clicked onto this thread thinking that something interesting might be appearing ? i find there are two adults having a childish spat . Normally it costs me 300kb , to raise as page BUT today 22MB disappear ! Thought there was a " personal message " facility for people to use to resolve disputes ?

Whether chewy or the goat is right or wrong is of no concern to me , BUT , 25+pages of a spat , when LA has just been " advised by UCI " , is a fraud on my time and resources !

Now going to look for Adults discussing relevant material !
And you bothering to comment is even more useless. Nobody forces you to read anything. Personal responsibility, look it up.
__________________
ChewbaccaDefense Esq., Attorney for the HaterEight
Reply With Quote
  #2680  
Old 12-12-12, 18:07
Hugh Januss's Avatar
Hugh Januss Hugh Januss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 5,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewbaccaD View Post
And you bothering to comment is even more useless. Nobody forces you to read anything. Personal responsibility, look it up.
I was just thinking to myself, I wonder what skippy's thoughts are on all this.
__________________
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings."

Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.