Sky - Page 990 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #9891  
Old 12-13-12, 12:14
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 22,584
Default

Quote:
ut usually the truth will out eventually, so if something untoward has happened at Sky then we will know at some point.

if big mig indurain can 21 years after his first win still be universaly ( outside of these nutjobs in the clinic) be remembered as a clean winner then absolutely anyone can get away with it.
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
  #9892  
Old 12-13-12, 12:15
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 22,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
You seem to have failed to have read the post. Scarponi may have won the Giro but how doped up was he? Perhaps he is a top rider, perhaps he needed a little help and perhaps he needed a lot of help.

How much help, if, any did he have on the Tour? You have no idea.

So why not say MartinVickers or whomever the Martin from the forum was. Someone mistaking Martin for Tony Martin on a cycling forum. I am sure that is not what you intended...not like you to try and obfuscate.

Oh, and have you found that twitter from Tyler Hamilton (The professional cyclist) where he was mocking Bradley Wiggins (The professional cyclist)?
Also scarponi did the giro before the tour and only rode the tour for the thrill of it anyway, so he cannot have been at his best.
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
  #9893  
Old 12-13-12, 12:18
maltiv maltiv is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avoriaz View Post
Calm down indeed.

Scarponi finished the Tour in 24th place. Richie Porte 22 minutes behind him in 34th place.

Poor Richie must have been too small for the finish line cameras and sensors to correctly place him given MS couldn't keep up.....
Unfortunately some people think that if a domestique hits the front, and a leader gets dropped, then said leader was "outclimbed" by the domestique... without taking into account that the domestique's goal was half-way up the climb, whilst the leader's goal surely is at the finish line.

Nonetheless, implying that Porte is doped because/if he outclimbed Scarponi is ridiculous, Scarponi had just done the Giro and wasn't close to top form. Also, he always sucks in whatever GT he does that isn't the Giro...
Reply With Quote
  #9894  
Old 12-13-12, 12:49
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 22,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
The simple fact about Leeinders is that he was a doctor on the squad when doping was going on and tolerated. As Libertine himself points out this puts him fairly low down on the hit-list of notorious doping doctors. There are teams out there employing doctors that are a lot dodgier
As I recall there was more to Lienders than that. Not sure though. And didnt libertine say that there are doctors more notorious, not neccesarily dodgier. The dodgiest usually arent the most famous.
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
  #9895  
Old 12-13-12, 12:57
JimmyFingers's Avatar
JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
if big mig indurain can 21 years after his first win still be universaly ( outside of these nutjobs in the clinic) be remembered as a clean winner then absolutely anyone can get away with it.
I was anticipating whistle-blowing at some point given people think that Sky are doping on a USPS-level. My take is it is impossible to keep a lid on these things forever. Lance's doping was so obvious, and there were so many rumours, anecdotal evidence and eye-witness accounts that meant it was only a matter of time while he tried to protect his legacy through mafia-style enforcement and court action. There's really none of that from Sky, beyond the performance and conspiracy theorists, but if it has been going on I'm sure whispers will start to emerge, kiss-and-tell stories in the press, then maybe dissaffected ex-staff members, and given the way Sky are ushering them out of the set-up I feel if there is a story it will emerge.

My opinion of course.
Reply With Quote
  #9896  
Old 12-13-12, 13:39
coinneach coinneach is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 612
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Couple of quick comments:

Sky has had something like 4 doctors on staff when they were looking for another one. Brailsford said they could not find a suitable doctor. Suitable for what? Saddlesore treatment? Then they ended up with Leinders...

If there is doping at Sky, and I firmly believe there was in 2012, it is likely to be a individually based program with as few as possible staff in the know, a doctor (for bag supervision, etc), a DS (for logistics eg motoman), and a coach (for performance management). Leinders, Yates and Sutton. More than those are not required and don't need to know, and that includes Brailsford who can sit behind his PC and direct the clean PR spin. The riders most likely were Rogers, Froome and Wiggins, and it would be better if they did not have confirmation verbally or visually of each others' doping. Unspoken rules only. Saves hassles later.
I don't normally agree with Tinman and I don't this time either BUT at least he has come out with a more believable scenario than "whole team doping" programme which wouldn't work for long because someone would fail a test or start talking.

The trouble with Tinman's senario is, what about the other Sky riders? For me, EBH + Richie P were just as impressive this year as Rogers, and Svitsov was supposted to be in the form of his life before he broke his collarbone, Stanners spent more time at the front of the peteton all season than anyone else and so it goes on. Sky's results up to the Olympics were consistently good: I can't remember even USPS ever having as good a season, apart from the Tour.

And including Sutton in the scheme doesn't make it any more believable either. That would tie in British track cycling and there are too many people involved with too much to loose that I just can't buy it.
Reply With Quote
  #9897  
Old 12-13-12, 14:10
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,019
Default

Hi all new member here, long time lurker.
Someone may have posted this link before but anywayhttp://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdfstats.html

IMO the winners avg speeds simply aren't coming down enough (or at all) to suggest clean winners of the tour - given the effects that PED have.
Reply With Quote
  #9898  
Old 12-13-12, 14:18
Don't be late Pedro's Avatar
Don't be late Pedro Don't be late Pedro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SundayRider View Post
Hi all new member here, long time lurker.
Someone may have posted this link before but anywayhttp://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdfstats.html

IMO the winners avg speeds simply aren't coming down enough (or at all) to suggest clean winners of the tour - given the effects that PED have.
There are too many variables to look at the Tour as a whole and compare the average speed. Otherwise, in 81/82 riders must have been on a wonder drug prior to previous years to account for the sudden ramp up in speed.

btw Hello and welcome.
__________________
Quote:
I was awarded 'Most Aggressive Rider of the Day', generally given to the most spectacular loser of the day.
― David Millar, Racing Through the Dark
Reply With Quote
  #9899  
Old 12-13-12, 14:22
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,019
Default

I agree its avg speed isn't everything but over a long period it is useful, especially seen as the Tour follows a similar format each year. The route in 2000 was actually quite similar to this year and Wiggins avg was actually faster than Armstrong's that year.
Reply With Quote
  #9900  
Old 12-13-12, 14:25
Netserk's Avatar
Netserk Netserk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 11,952
Default

I would like to see how many watts Wiggo is pushing in the TTs compared to Armstrong.
__________________
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Landis
Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider.
Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.