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  #221  
Old 12-13-12, 13:50
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Problem is that the way you put it, then if a cyclist is being hit by a car, while not looking like a walking (cycling) Christmas tree then, it's, automatically and no matter the circumstances, the cyclists own fault.
absolutely not ! we are in the minority and we know how scary it is to be passed by a car at speed and driving close to us. BUT most people do not ride a bike and are unaware of how scary it is. I practically drive on the other side of the road when i see a cyclist. The majority of drivers think that its fine to give you a few inches...they have no clue how frightening that is.

With the driving test they should make people get on a bike and the instructor pass at speed and close.. to give them an idea of cycling.
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  #222  
Old 12-13-12, 17:57
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
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absolutely not ! we are in the minority and we know how scary it is to be passed by a car at speed and driving close to us. BUT most people do not ride a bike and are unaware of how scary it is. I practically drive on the other side of the road when i see a cyclist. The majority of drivers think that its fine to give you a few inches...they have no clue how frightening that is.

With the driving test they should make people get on a bike and the instructor pass at speed and close.. to give them an idea of cycling.
People who drive to the far side of the road frighten me more than people who just whiz by--what happens when an idiot comes blowing down the opposite lane?

For the sake of argument, let's look at the extreme side of your case. Tuesday some contractor/plumber/painter in a white work van (based on my limited experience, they are the most consistently a problem) blew out of a turn and clipped me, knocked me over and probably managed to crack a rib--along with the usual hip/knee abrasions.

When I got up he told me that it was my fault because I don't pay road tax, don't have insurance, didn't have a high viz vest on, nor a helmet.

You probably know better than I that the road tax argument is crap and hasn't applied for years. Since I'm unlikely to hurt anyone, I don't need insurance, helmets aren't mandatory and despite the lack of vest, I have a rather large neon orange back pack. You'll recall also, that Tuesday morning was the most stunningly clear day we've had in three months.

So, his statements were nothing more than guilty fiction, and while all black with no lights is not the way to go, there are I and many who don't want to have to pursue absurdist social prophylactics at every turn in order to protect ourselves from the ignorance and/or resentment of some who are on the road (because that protection won't come).

Wholesale education and awareness raising are, as has been suggested to you, equally necessary.

Last edited by aphronesis; 12-13-12 at 19:53.
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  #223  
Old 12-14-12, 02:28
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People who drive to the far side of the road frighten me more than people who just whiz by--what happens when an idiot comes blowing down the opposite lane?
Good point. The main problem with these overly cautious drivers is they end up endangering everyone. They move so far away from you they sometimes end up across the yellow line and if a car is coming from a blind corner, tight turn, driveway, or yes even head on they may end up in an accident and well even end up involving the cyclist who the original driver was trying to avoid. All that is needed is for the driver to be in their lane not at any extreme of it, that is enough room, as long as the cyclist is also in their designated area as well.

Hence why there are designated lanes or lines to distinguish where each vehicle should be.
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  #224  
Old 12-14-12, 06:19
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interesting comments on the hi-viz vs lights bit...

scenario that occured the other evening - a 'P' plater driving without their lights on. Well, not just the 'P' plater, as we saw 2 cars go by (while waiting in a cab rank) that had no lights on either.

So, with no headlights shining up the road, how does your "reflective" hi-viz vest work?
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  #225  
Old 12-14-12, 07:09
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interesting comments on the hi-viz vs lights bit...

scenario that occured the other evening - a 'P' plater driving without their lights on. Well, not just the 'P' plater, as we saw 2 cars go by (while waiting in a cab rank) that had no lights on either.

So, with no headlights shining up the road, how does your "reflective" hi-viz vest work?
Did anyone suggest only wearing a reflective vest and not having lights?

I didn't think so.
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  #226  
Old 12-14-12, 09:57
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=aphronesis;1093145.....clipped me, knocked me over and probably managed to crack a rib--along with the usual hip/knee abrasions. ...When I got up he told me that it was my fault because I don't pay road tax, don't have insurance, didn't have a high viz vest on, nor a helmet.
...Wholesale education and awareness raising are, as has been suggested to you, equally necessary.
I didnt say that the drivers were blameless. The BBC1 programme the other night showed some terrible incidents in and around London. Of course the drivers are ignorant as I have pointed out,.I believe it is because they have never ridden a bike. Their mentality and attitude has to change which must come from the driving test at an early age.

Your accident is terrible and I know the pain you must be in,.i,ve been knocked off by another cyclist and had bad injuries from hitting a busy road. However, WHY DONT YOU WEAR A HELMET. You are very lucky you didnt have head injuries.
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  #227  
Old 12-17-12, 02:44
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When I hear about well mannered and mentally stable people like this, I certainly do feel afraid.
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  #228  
Old 12-17-12, 02:51
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Originally Posted by frenchfry View Post
Did anyone suggest only wearing a reflective vest and not having lights?

I didn't think so.
you, yourself, responded to someone to say that it isn't one or the other... perhaps that person was implying such?
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  #229  
Old 12-17-12, 12:11
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Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
you, yourself, responded to someone to say that it isn't one or the other... perhaps that person was implying such?

I was replying to this post by Arnout, in which it appears to me that he is saying that if you wear high visibility clothing you likely won't use lights:

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Hi-vi jackets are extremely dangerous. Wearing them makes people think they don't need lights. A tiny little light on both sides makes you way more visible in the dark than all hi-vi jackets combined.
I can't understand why this is a polarising issue. Obviously, high visibility clothing isn't dangerous. In some lighting conditions it may not be the best solution to being visible, but at the very least it will be complementary to other means such as adequate lighting. I suggest that for maximum visability you should wear reflective clothing AND have proper lights.

In no situation that I can think of is the wearing of high visibility clothing more dangerous than not wearing it. With the obvious exception of situations where you don't want to be seen like war or playing hide and seek.
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Last edited by frenchfry; 12-17-12 at 12:14.
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  #230  
Old 01-14-13, 12:36
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Shane Stokes@SSbike
Was out driving yesterday - really noticed how less visible riders are in black clothing. Risky fashion choice #better2bsafe
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