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  #9951  
Old 12-14-12, 01:49
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Originally Posted by Ferminal View Post
Which PEDs minimise perspiration?
All of them if you're not going hard enough to break a sweat.

I have heard really low body fat people sweat less, but it was a sample size of 1, so unconfirmed.
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  #9952  
Old 12-14-12, 07:07
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Im amazed how stupid and reactionary your post is and posts(plural) recently, have become

"wah people say wiggins dopes like lance".

"Wah Wah people say wiggins is an arsehole"

Cry if you want but stop hijacking actual discussions that have nothing to do with these prior criticsism by constantly moaning about what people said 10 pages ago.

Since you missed it, I was actually explaining to you what Lance did that got him caught why it doesnt spell doom for every person who ever doped.

Since you seem incapable of understanding simple arguments like - "lance got caught because he made enemies of people that had the power to bring him down", maybe ill have a bit more luck by drawing you a picture.

2 criminals. Stiped white and blacked shirts, a bag over their shoulder and a mask over their head.

Criminal A - Shoots a person, tells 10 people about it and keeps the gun.

Criminal B - Shoots a person, tells his lawyer about it and throws the gun into the sea.

Do you understand why Criminal A was caught and what he could have done to avoid capture?

Or are you going to come back with some more moaning about how people dont like sky and say nasty things about them?

Edit: Ps, Criminal B is not Wiggins, just a hypothetical example of how people can get away with crimes if they put their head to it. Contrary to these imo stupid and childish ideas "you know youll eventually get caught" and "the lid will eventually come off".
At what point in my post did I simply insult you? Not once. Yet it's ok to call me 'stupid and reactionary' and 'incapable of understanding simple arguments' and proceed to patronise me? Oh yeah, stupid and childish too. Nice.

If you can't engage in debate without getting personally involved and resorting to petty insults I suggest you don't bother. Shame of it I've always respected you as a poster and my post wasn't meant to be that confrontational, just trying to interact with your assertion that Wiggins will never get caught because he's not like Lance, despite so many people saying he is. I'll avoid making the same mistake again
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  #9953  
Old 12-14-12, 08:49
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Once again, Big Mig did dope to USPS levels.
He even failed a drugs test? Why hasnt his lid been blown? Why are the same people calling wiggins a clean tour winner saying Big Mig was the last clean tour winner before that?
Mig did fail a test for Salbutamol in early 1994 in France. Rumours abound that intergovernmental talks between Spain and France were necessary to make the problem "go away".

He couldn't test positive for EPO as he retired 4 years before the test was introduced.

Mig was a nice guy who didn't make enemies. His time will come, though.
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  #9954  
Old 12-14-12, 08:59
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Re JTL, would it be prudent to wait until he achieves Froome-like results before referring to him as Froome-II?

The history of all sports is littered with promising talents that fail to deliver.
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  #9955  
Old 12-14-12, 09:32
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
I don't know? Brailsford said “If you want spectacular, jumping all over the place, at crazy speeds, let them dope."

Not at all what you are implying.
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Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
Anquetil said something along those lines in the early days of drug testing, mid-sixties? Something like 'you want us to ride along at 15kph without drugs, or be entertained with us riding at 25kph with'

Its a story old as time
Same old story with you two. You really have no clue do you? So naive it is beyond a joke. That quote SundayRider gave is one of the most well known in modern cycling regarding doping. Ever heard of Hein Verbruggen? Oh I forgot, he doesn't originate from the UK. Nevermind.

PS: Stop wasting people's time with lies and false info. You had no clue, so why comment? Oh it's your heroes team...my bad. Christmas come early this year fellas?
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  #9956  
Old 12-14-12, 09:35
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
That's because you are not separating the riders who have improved whilst under BC tutelage, from the sudden breakout performances from people not under that umbrella.

I am not suggesting an Eastern-Bloc-style statewide doping program; I am suggesting that it is not far-fetched to consider that, given that the British domestic calendar is pretty limited and Team Sky gives Britain a clear focus point to go to at the top level that has never been there before (previously British talents had to up and shop around on the continent, even as recently as Stannard, spending a year at Landbouwkrediet and a year at ISD before resurfacing at Sky), seeing such sudden and marked improvements from people who have not been through that development process but now see themselves becoming focal riders at Sky, is something that would - should - raise eyebrows. After all, these success stories of total out-of-nowhere-talents now find themselves in a position to benefit from all BC's hard work, a position that was never afforded previous generations of British talent.

Again - is it suspiciously convenient timing that these great riders have just happened to break out at the right time despite not really showing any previous signs that it was likely? Or is it just that talents of previous generations didn't get the nurturing, or without that clear and precise British goal to aspire to were more directionless as riders? After all, Jamie Burrow could, from his early results, feasibly have been better than Froome and Tiernan-Locke put together. Was it just that he was born at the wrong time and they were fortunate enough to be born at the right time?

You say that I'm saying a generation of talent is other than nurture and investment, but where is the nurture and investment in the case of guys like Froome and Tiernan-Locke? Yet they've made bigger strides, far more suddenly and far more intensely, than any of the guys that BC have been carefully developing. If we're going to credit BC for the upswing in British cycling talent, then how do we reconcile that with Froome and Tiernan-Locke, not within British Cycling, improving more, more quickly, and being better than, almost all of BC's pet projects who have received far more investment and nurture?
You seem to contradict yourself slightly with the two statements I've highlighted. Personally I would say it's far-fetched to say BC is undertaking Eastern-bloc style doping, meaning an entire generation of British cyclists and cycling staff have taken the moral decision to turn to dope to achieve results. You're are saying hundreds even thousands of people might be complicit in a grand deception. For me that is a bridge to far to even hint at without more concrete information to go on beyond 'convenience'. As I said, it's like saying British cyclists could never be good, so they must dope to achieve results.

Yet the example you cite are JTL and Froome, who aren't part of the 'academy' of BC, but whose talents have developed independently of BC and the suggested doping programme that is being run by them. Are you saying they are the exception that proves the rule?

Firstly I say, as others are saying, we have to wait and see how JTL will fair when he plays with the big boys. He did well at the worlds but he's comepletely unproven at GT level, so surely we have to reserve judgement on him as to whether he is 'improving more, more quickly, and being better than, almost all of BC's pet projects'. He has already had to field accusations of doping, and the suspicions aren't belied at all because the absence of a biological passport until now. That said, given who does the testing, the passport doesn't count for too much but now he is at pro-tour level he will get pro-tour testing. I think we should re-visit this conversation in about 12 months time.

As for Froome there's not a lot I'll say to defend him from accusations of doping quite frankly. I've said already if there's two members of Sky I'm suspicious of it's Rogers and Froome, but if he is doping I do think he's doing independently of Sky and BC. An opinion of course.

As for previous generations of riders, yes I am sure they suffered because of a lack of infrastructure to nurture them. By banning road racing in this country in the early half of the twentienth century they gave the continent a 50 year head start on us, and we've been playing catch up ever since. I would further qualify that by saying we've only been making a serious attempt at playing catch up in the last 10-15 years.

I think you to look at where road-racing is in the British psyche. I don't by and large we get it, it's seen as a continental eccentricism, these cobbled classics, hilly classics, monuments, Grand Tours. We don't understand how it fits together, we don't understand the history of the sport because it's not part of the sporting culture here. So historically very little was shown on TV, and reported in the papers. We got the Tour once a year on one of our 4 channels when I was growing up, and then we lost that, and even up until last year you only got ITV showing the Tour and on the back of that the Vuelta. And still that is on ITV4, so not a 'main' channel. And you'd still need Eurosport at least to watch early season classics and the shorter stage races. ITV will probably show the Giro this year as well but I doubt much else.

To be a road-racing fan in Britain until recently meant you were a bit odd, and you weren't cheering on British riders, you were cheering Italians and French and Belgians, so it took on this almost mythical, exotic appeal full of panache and style and daring-do. British riders were mostly lone guns, who had to decamp to the continent with their bike, away from their family and friends and try to make their way as a pro as best they could. Given the cultural and language difference, you should appreciate that was no easy thing.
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  #9957  
Old 12-14-12, 09:42
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Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
Froome is going to feel the same team support as Alberto in '09, and totally crush his own team (riding away from them in the TTT), only to have non on the team to fetch bottles for him, so Sky essentially is an 8 man team from the start, and Froome goes Gadret style!
I have a feeling they'll deal with him before the Tour this time. Either he gets popped or the Bilhazaria or whatever his blood illness is, takes a nasty turn for the worse. Can't have Wiggins feelings hurt. After all he and Davey boy go WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY back.

The only way Froome gets a shot at the Tour is if Brailsford agrees to let Wiggins focus on the Tour knowing that Brad might not beat Contador. But why now? Why is Wiggins turning on Froome now, when in October he was cool with the Giro? Parcours hasn't changed. Oh wait...has Vino scared Wiggins away? Could Astana's team presentation in Astana and their declaration to get Nibali the Giro win have upset Brad that much? No, no and no the Sky fanboys will cry. Hard love children. The Nibali man, is a doper. A Ferrari client. Sound like the grapevine whispers made their way to lil old UK soil and have upset the Sky big clean riders.

I mean after all, tag teaming Contador is a much smarter idea than taking Nibali on all alone with Rogers and Froome to hold your hand isn't it? Thank you Sky for the gift that keeps on giving. Your incessant idiocy and brashness will be a great source of laughs for 2013. Thank you Sky for your clean riding and perseverance.

And for those worrying about what I've said. Alas and fret not. The world will not end next Thursday. These guys said so and we will get to see Sky go full retard and beyond in 2013!

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html
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  #9958  
Old 12-14-12, 09:45
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Originally Posted by Dazed and Confused View Post
Olympic TT.

Tony Martin laying dead against the fence simply not able to talk to anybody after the race. Silver by barely managing to beat Froome.

Froome coming in with little sweat, not needing water and ready to talk to the press while his eyes are on the clock checking lessor competitors..

Superior talent.
To be fair, Martin was recovering from injuries that had effected his season, so to even come second given what had happened was an amazing acheivement (I am not suprised he was in such a condition at the end), if he and Cancellara had injury free run ups to the TT then Froome would not have had a medal and BMW may not have had Gold.
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  #9959  
Old 12-14-12, 10:17
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Sky should have bought him, broke him apart, to create RoboFroome III.
Sky have the 6 Million Dollar Man patent. And it works. If Froome can almost win a GT, heck I'd wager with the right bottle of Sky wonder lotion almost anyone could. Just gotta be part Brit down the ancestry tree somewhere to do it.

Actually could you imagine the TTT at the Tour with Cancellara on their team? Wiggins, Froome, Porte, Stennard, Thomas and Kennaugh all pulled by super lightweight Fabian Cancellara. I'd pay to see that. Would be more ridiculous than the Gewiss and Mapei triple podiums from the mid 90s.
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  #9960  
Old 12-14-12, 11:03
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Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
Put simply, you are the biggest waste of time on this forum. That is all.
My advice is put him on ignore list. Single worst poster on this forum. I may not agree with others on the forum but at least they can construct a sentence.

Funny how he disappeared from the forum when Wiggins was close to winning the Tour after writing pages about how he would never do it. Probably spent weeks crying under his Justin Bieber bed covers.
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