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  #41  
Old 12-14-12, 21:21
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that Horner has his line in the sand, that in the absence of a positive test there is no doping. I understand that simplicity, even though I do not agree with it. If I recall, Conconni and Ferrari had something of the same opinion.

However, Horner's opinion does not make him stupid. I am surely in awe of the powerful intelligence of the forum posters, all of whom are at the genius level (or above) of intelligence and who can sit in such powerful and reasoned judgment of all opinions.
What a bunch of tools
You would be wrong to assume a few forum members don't actually know the guy. He is fairly accessible to the public in Bend, Oregon. He would have done himself a favor by not talking at all.
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  #42  
Old 12-14-12, 21:24
howsteepisit howsteepisit is offline
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Originally Posted by maltiv View Post
So all the guys who admitted doping must be delusional then? They never tested positive, thus they are clean. They probably just confessed to get attention!

By now we know how useless the tests are, as long as they are careful they only get caught if they're so unlucky/stupid to get tested within a few hours of taking EPO, which is extremely unlikely...

Not at all, I was pointing out that in many professional sports the general belief is that if your are not caught/penalized then you were not cheating. Pro sports are pragmatic if nothing else. Its great fun to sit here on a forum and moralize of how awful cheating is blah blah blah, but it does not reflect the realities of the guys who are out there making a living year in and out. Since the entry fee into the pro peloton is to win or dominate amateur events, that what the aspiring pro does. the price of remaining in the peloton is to either win or be able to help create a winning teammate. And those that are there are often prepared to do what is necessary to remain there. So they draw a line of not caught/didn't cheat. Its really no different than investment banking and hedge funds. If you are not caught then obviously you did not use insider information. This is the fundamental reality of the competitive world, like it or not. The predominant posters here, do not accept that reality, but I note that they are forum posters, not world class cyclists.

By the way, in spite of the Lance accusation, I have dislike Lance since the early 90's based on his arrogant attitude. His drugging did nothing to change my opinion of his as i never liked him at all.

Edit: A Stupis opinion does not make a person stupid. Nor does a opinion that you do not agree with.

Last edited by howsteepisit; 12-14-12 at 21:26. Reason: Additonal comment
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  #43  
Old 12-14-12, 21:28
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Not at all, I was pointing out that in many professional sports the general belief is that if your are not caught/penalized then you were not cheating. Pro sports are pragmatic if nothing else. Its great fun to sit here on a forum and moralize of how awful cheating is blah blah blah, but it does not reflect the realities of the guys who are out there making a living year in and out. Since the entry fee into the pro peloton is to win or dominate amateur events, that what the aspiring pro does. the price of remaining in the peloton is to either win or be able to help create a winning teammate. And those that are there are often prepared to do what is necessary to remain there. So they draw a line of not caught/didn't cheat. Its really no different than investment banking and hedge funds. If you are not caught then obviously you did not use insider information. This is the fundamental reality of the competitive world, like it or not. The predominant posters here, do not accept that reality, but I note that they are forum posters, not world class cyclists.

By the way, in spite of the Lance accusation, I have dislike Lance since the early 90's based on his arrogant attitude. His drugging did nothing to change my opinion of his as i never liked him at all.
Accepting the reality doesn't mean having to like it.

Rather presumptious to assume that forum posters cannot also be world class cyclists.
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  #44  
Old 12-14-12, 21:35
howsteepisit howsteepisit is offline
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Not thats why I said the predominate posters, not all posters. I am pretty sure there are a couple of world class cyclist or excyclists who post here. Ask them about the attitudes towards cheating in professional sports, not just drug cheating but all forms, such as taking a draft in the caravan to caught back up after a mechanical. Hell its still cheating. How about crossing the center line. Or is cheating not always cheating? If there are degrees of cheating, then at least acknowledge that differing opinions on the relative severity of cheating differ, and If Horner does not feel like drugging is that death dealing level of cheating, then he is entitled to that opinion and is not to be judged to be stupid because of his opinion.
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  #45  
Old 12-14-12, 21:40
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He never tested positive because they have not yet developed the test to find the biggest moron in the world.
LMAO!
Can't think of a better comment than this
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  #46  
Old 12-14-12, 21:54
howsteepisit howsteepisit is offline
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Hey moderator - How about some guidance here. Since its OK to call riders et al morons or stupid based on their reported comments, , why can't I call posters stupid based on their posts?

Note I would exclude Pat McQuaid as he is clearly a total idiot.
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  #47  
Old 12-14-12, 21:58
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Hey moderator - How about some guidance here. Since its OK to call riders et al morons or stupid based on their reported comments, , why can't I call posters stupid based on their posts?
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14952

6. No insulting other members. This includes counter-insults ("he started it").
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  #48  
Old 12-14-12, 21:59
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so what you need to do is get Horner to become a registered CN forum user, and that way we can't insult him anymore.
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  #49  
Old 12-14-12, 22:03
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Fortyninefourteen Fortyninefourteen is offline
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
It seems pretty clear to me that Horner has his line in the sand, that in the absence of a positive test there is no doping. I understand that simplicity, even though I do not agree with it. If I recall, Conconni and Ferrari had something of the same opinion.

However, Horner's opinion does not make him stupid. I am surely in awe of the powerful intelligence of the forum posters, all of whom are at the genius level (or above) of intelligence and who can sit in such powerful and reasoned judgment of all opinions.
What a bunch of tools

"Reasoned" judgement?

Freudian slip?
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  #50  
Old 12-14-12, 22:11
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Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
I really disagree. I think that Horner has a good appreciation of just how precarious his position in the pro peloton is--and that he knows just what he must do and say to keep that position.

Horner is only a bike rider. What else is he going to do? He is truly a representative of his profession. It's a filthy job, and Horner does it.
He could shut up, for example. It certainly strikes me as the smartest way not to jeopardize your position one way or the other.
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