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  #10011  
Old 12-15-12, 15:16
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
I know where you're coming from and to some extent I agree with you. But the bolded sentence is somewhat inline with those LA apologists who say "Lance wouldn't won the Tour anyway if everyone was clean", which we know to be unlikely. Lance's physiology was more suited to aggressive O2 vector doping than f/ex Vaughters'. One could argue that by being ranked #1 U23 in the World at a time when EPO use was rampant, Burrow may have been in the same boat as Lance.

In all honesty I don't think there's any need to cherry pick a rider like Burrow and say he showed more potential than Froome - you could've pick about 75% of the peloton in 2011 at random and said the same.
I cherry-picked Burrow initially as part of my comparison of the luck of timing, to explain why I find it a little convenient that Britain has 'lucked into' a talent like Froome, when they've actually produced seemingly better talents in the past through that luck method, and they've wound up going nowhere. Froome, on the other hand, has just fortuitously found himself discovering that he has world-beating potential at the precise moment when he can get the big contract for it and the world-beating team behind him.
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  #10012  
Old 12-15-12, 15:53
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
is this supposed to be evidence of involvement with Ferrari?
One can draw their own conclusions.

It's an interesting statement to make considering it was the same statement that made him call people 'bone idle w******'.

Very odd.
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  #10013  
Old 12-15-12, 17:03
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Originally Posted by badboygolf16v View Post
We're not saying Burrow was clean are we?
are we saying anyone is clean?

Jamie Burrow still has the record for Plateau de deilles in Ronde l'Izard

I have been speaking to Dave Brailsford* and told him he needs to get Burrow on the roster, the best UK climber since Millar and Froomie.

I think Burrow also beat Thor in the chrono during that tour. When Thor was reigning u23 world champ in the chrono.

*may, or may not, perhaps may not, may not be apocryphal.
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Millartime@leTour It would be nice to see him in the Tour of Britain. I think he deserves to go out on a good note, I might even bid for his shoes if he's in TOB, What size is he?
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  #10014  
Old 12-15-12, 17:07
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
There is no contradiction. I cite JTL and Froome as examples precisely BECAUSE they aren't part of the academy at BC. Because that's what makes their transformations more suspicious. They are people who just happened to chance upon realising that they're actually massive talents, at the time that the BC program was reaping its rewards.

The BC guys who came from within BC have improved, because they've been developed and nurtured to do so. So I'm not calling those suspicious. It's the way that guys who have nothing to do with the careful nurturing arm of BC have suddenly leapt to the front of the list of priority projects for Sky (and by proxy BC because of the blurry distinction) with sudden and extreme improvements that has raised my interest with regards to the coincidence. It's like Froome suddenly went from a guy who was there because of his passport and to provide support for BC's projects they were developing, to suddenly vaulting ahead of all of them and taking the opportunities that those riders he had been domestiquing for had been groomed for.

From his results as a junior and espoir, Jamie Burrow was a greater talent than Chris Froome and Jonathan Tiernan-Locke... put together. He was the #1 ranked U23 in the world in 1999. He was arguably the best talent Britain had created since Robert Millar. But for the last six years he's been riding Gran Fondos, because he came about at the wrong time. And at the same time Chris Froome is showing us exactly what happens if Andy Schleck was able to time trial, given his super-peaking and hilarious reinvention. Chris Froome and Jonathan Tiernan-Locke have hit upon their purple patches of form at the right time. But when you throw in the incredible timing of the patches of bilharzia that arrange themselves around contract signings and Grand Tours, it seems like Chris Froome's rejuvenation has had a lot to do with convenient timing. I'm perhaps guilty of over-thinking this because of how suspicious I've found the timing of other things regarding Chris Froome and his miracle development... but I look at him standing on the podium of the Vuelta and the Tour and think... that should have been Burrow. He should've been that guy. He had the results as an espoir that we could point to and say "he always had the talent to make it as a GT contender". We wouldn't be trying to analyse whether winning the Anatomic Jock Race or being in the same break as Johan van Summeren in week 3 of the Tour meant a guy could win a GT.

Regards a guy like JTL... he has good reasons for his surprise late development, and I acknowledge those. But that he happened to have that major improvement when he did - when he could benefit the most from it because of Sky's standing in World Cycling (and hey, hilly Classics has been one area where they hadn't that strong a presence, with Gerrans leaving, though Urán is of course pretty useful in that regard) - is interesting. Possibly coincidental, but it's difficult to avoid being sucked into conspiracy theories with Sky because they seem to be very good at behaving in such a way as to inspire them. All I know is, if a guy like Remmert Wielinga or Kai Reus started wrecking the .1-ranked races next year, it would be a surprise. Both of those guys were supertalents, way above Tiernan-Locke pre-mono, and both have given up cycling and had a year or two of comeback. But it would still be extremely surprising to see them at that level next year, and it would mean that people would question them. With them there would be ample room for a conspiracy theory about convenient timing as well, of course - with the former Rabo team hunting for a sponsor and needing Dutch riders to be at the forefront of people's thinking.
Burrow beat the Pirate's record for Plateau de Beilles did he not Libertine Seguros?
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Millartime@leTour It would be nice to see him in the Tour of Britain. I think he deserves to go out on a good note, I might even bid for his shoes if he's in TOB, What size is he?
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  #10015  
Old 12-15-12, 17:30
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Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
are we saying anyone is clean?

Jamie Burrow still has the record for Plateau de deilles in Ronde l'Izard

I have been speaking to Dave Brailsford* and told him he needs to get Burrow on the roster, the best UK climber since Millar and Froomie.

I think Burrow also beat Thor in the chrono during that tour. When Thor was reigning u23 world champ in the chrono.

*may, or may not, perhaps may not, may not be apocryphal.
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fu...est%20News

!!!!

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Jamie Burrow was rated number one under-23 rider in the world, he turned pro for US Postal as a team mate of Lance Armstrong and despite some very promising rides in the pro ranks he never scaled the heights expected of him.
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  #10016  
Old 12-15-12, 18:14
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is a much cooler cat than that Wigans N A' Ascott

Burrow 4 Team Captain at Sky

Is that Eliza Basso?
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Millartime@leTour It would be nice to see him in the Tour of Britain. I think he deserves to go out on a good note, I might even bid for his shoes if he's in TOB, What size is he?
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  #10017  
Old 12-15-12, 18:37
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Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
is a much cooler cat than that Wigans N A' Ascott

Burrow 4 Team Captain at Sky

Is that Eliza Basso?
He was too cool for BC so they got goofy Froome from Kenya and turned him into ET.


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  #10018  
Old 12-15-12, 19:55
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Very similar but dont think so.

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  #10019  
Old 12-15-12, 20:33
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wigg...crash-with-car

“It just goes to show that if I can do it anyone can do it with a bit of application and hard work. You don’t have to be Lance Armstrong, you don’t have to be this incredible machine of an athlete. Anyone can do it. Anyone in this set-up can no do it now. If I can do it, with where I came from, then anyone could do it."

For goodness sakes Brad...
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...[Walsh] thinks we're ahead of the curve. But think about it for a sec. We're building long-lasting, trusting relationships with people who are spending a lot of money - Coke, Nike, Subaru. If we're f***ing lying, we can kiss it all goodbye. And if we were lying we'd do some stupid stuff to try to cover it up, wouldn't we? Does anybody think for a second that a secret that big wouldn't come out? Bill Stapleton
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  #10020  
Old 12-15-12, 20:41
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wigg...crash-with-car

ďIt just goes to show that if I can do it anyone can do it with a bit of application and hard work. You donít have to be Lance Armstrong, you donít have to be this incredible machine of an athlete. Anyone can do it. Anyone in this set-up can no do it now. If I can do it, with where I came from, then anyone could do it."

For goodness sakes Brad...
Aye, not best expressed there from Wiggins. Expecting some incoming on here after that
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