Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012) - Page 278 - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2771  
Old 12-16-12, 20:36
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
I said it was obvious that you have had nothing to do with the sport.....
Nice try - I am not venting against that, but your portrayal that 'devoted fans' (you still haven't said who they are) of the sport would follow regardless that it is a cesspool. If you were involved with the sport (at any level) you would know that is untrue.
I am just a fan. I'd never race because the downhills scare me too much. I respect the riders' ability to throw themselves down the mountain with complete faith in their machine and their skill.

I'm not going to specifically identify "devoted fans." That's an invitation into the Maserati Vortex that I choose not to accept.

I think you are arguing that pro cycling is not a filthy cesspool. I believe that as much as I believe that Lance Armstrong, Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Mercks, Bjarne Riis, and Jan Ullrich rode on bread and water.
__________________
May 20, 2010: Floyd tells truth.
June 10, 2010: Floyd files qui tam.
Reply With Quote
  #2772  
Old 12-16-12, 20:39
Benotti69's Avatar
Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 12,704
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Is Jenkins an investigative journalist or a columnist? As a columnist, she would be paid to write her opinions, and by doing so to draw extra readers to the paper. Seems like she is doing her job very well indeed. If she is a investigative journalist, I'd say not so well as her analysis is shallow and incomplete.

But I continue to be amazed at the collective condemning of those who hold a differing opinion on internet forums.
LiveWrong workers gotta do something, trolling helps pay the bills.
__________________
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78
Reply With Quote
  #2773  
Old 12-16-12, 20:43
Fortyninefourteen's Avatar
Fortyninefourteen Fortyninefourteen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 808
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
LiveWrong workers gotta do something, trolling helps pay the bills.
Jenkins wrote that article sitting in a bathtub, with a bottle of chardonnay, a vanilla candle, and Enya playing in the earbuds. Sobbing the whole time.

The equivalent of drunk dialing an ex lover.....
Reply With Quote
  #2774  
Old 12-16-12, 20:49
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortyninefourteen View Post
Jenkins wrote that article sitting in a bathtub, with a bottle of chardonnay, a vanilla candle, and Enya playing in the earbuds. Sobbing the whole time.

The equivalent of drunk dialing an ex lover.....

. . . and staring at her puny royalty check.
__________________
May 20, 2010: Floyd tells truth.
June 10, 2010: Floyd files qui tam.
Reply With Quote
  #2775  
Old 12-16-12, 20:52
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
I am just a fan. I'd never race because the downhills scare me too much. I respect the riders' ability to throw themselves down the mountain with complete faith in their machine and their skill.

I'm not going to specifically identify "devoted fans." That's an invitation into the Maserati Vortex that I choose not to accept.
You are a fan of what though?
And what are these devoted fans actually fans of?

And you were quick to throw out that I was namecalling and then attempt to get out by name calling? The vortex is always you spinning one way then another - if you had a reasonable point you would be able to clearly make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
I think you are arguing that pro cycling is not a filthy cesspool. I believe that as much as I believe that Lance Armstrong, Jacques Anquetil, Eddy Mercks, Bjarne Riis, and Jan Ullrich rode on bread and water.
I never made that argument.
Quite frankly, I have forgotten more about what has happened in this sport than you will ever know.

If it was a cesspool and the devoted fan stuck by it, as you suggested - then why would there even be any discussion (yet alone serious pressure) to change the status quo?
Reply With Quote
  #2776  
Old 12-16-12, 21:05
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
You are a fan of what though?
And what are these devoted fans actually fans of?

And you were quick to throw out that I was namecalling and then attempt to get out by name calling? The vortex is always you spinning one way then another - if you had a reasonable point you would be able to clearly make it.


I never made that argument.
Quite frankly, I have forgotten more about what has happened in this sport than you will ever know.

If it was a cesspool and the devoted fan stuck by it, as you suggested - then why would there even be any discussion (yet alone serious pressure) to change the status quo?
Oh, I get it. You are trying to paint me as a devoted fan.

I'm not. I enjoy cycling at about the same level as I like watching TV shows. It's also extremely good to have on while I'm on the Computrainer. I knowingly refuse to support professional cycling in any financial way. (I bought the Computrainer before my eyes were opened about the sport).

My point is pretty straightforward: Cycling is a filthy cesspool. There is only one way out of that cesspool: The money flowing into the cesspool needs to stop. That is the ONLY way that the sport could ever change into the aspirational dream for the sport that you and I probably share.

There's so much talk about Bad Lance and Bad Sally, etc., that it obscures the reality that the sport itself spawns these people. If it wasn't Lance, it would be somebody else. If Sally didn't write Lance's books and apologize for him, somebody else would.

I freely admit that you have a fantastic level of knowledge about the filthy cesspool of pro cycling and that your level of knowledge of the sport is infinitely greater than mine. But it doesn't take an encyclopedic knowledge of cycling to know that sport is sinfully filthy.

I don't see any possibility of change. Too many people (like Sally, for example) are financially or emotionally invested in the sport as it is right now--a filthy cesspool. So I just enjoy it for what it it is--a circus and a soap opera.
__________________
May 20, 2010: Floyd tells truth.
June 10, 2010: Floyd files qui tam.

Last edited by MarkvW; 12-16-12 at 21:08.
Reply With Quote
  #2777  
Old 12-16-12, 21:26
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
Oh, I get it. You are trying to paint me as a devoted fan.
No, I was genuinely asking you to be specific on what a 'devoted fan' was.

And I would not have said you were a devoted fan - thats why I knew you had not much first hand experience in the sport. Again, that is not a putdown to stop you commenting - just an accurate observation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
I'm not. I enjoy cycling at about the same level as I like watching TV shows. It's also extremely good to have on while I'm on the Computrainer. I knowingly refuse to support professional cycling in any financial way. (I bought the Computrainer before my eyes were opened about the sport).
Nothing wrong with that at all - indeed I read somewhere that years ago many sponsors of TdF teams were aimed at ladies who were doing domestic chores with the TV on in the backround because they liked the shots of the scenery.
And that is why there will always be viewers and always be sponsors and money, which goes to your argument below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
My point is pretty straightforward: Cycling is a filthy cesspool. There is only one way out of that cesspool: The money flowing into the cesspool needs to stop. That is the ONLY way that the sport could ever change into the aspirational dream for the sport that you and I probably share.

There's so much talk about Bad Lance and Bad Sally, etc., that it obscures the reality that the sport itself spawns these people. If it wasn't Lance, it would be somebody else. If Sally didn't write Lance's books and apologize for him, somebody else would.

I freely admit that you have a fantastic level of knowledge about the filthy cesspool of pro cycling and that your level of knowledge of the sport is infinitely greater than mine. But it doesn't take an encyclopedic knowledge of cycling to know that sport is sinfully filthy.

I don't see any possibility of change. Too many people (like Sally, for example) are financially or emotionally invested in the sport as it is right now--a filthy cesspool. So I just enjoy it for what it it is--a circus and a soap opera.
Lets be clear - Sally is not invested in any way with the sport.
That is why i asked what you meant by devoted fan and saying they are the same as her.

She is a journalist - she will write your book for money. Pretty simple.
Reply With Quote
  #2778  
Old 12-16-12, 22:01
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
No, I was genuinely asking you to be specific on what a 'devoted fan' was.

And I would not have said you were a devoted fan - thats why I knew you had not much first hand experience in the sport. Again, that is not a putdown to stop you commenting - just an accurate observation.



Nothing wrong with that at all - indeed I read somewhere that years ago many sponsors of TdF teams were aimed at ladies who were doing domestic chores with the TV on in the backround because they liked the shots of the scenery.
And that is why there will always be viewers and always be sponsors and money, which goes to your argument below.


Lets be clear - Sally is not invested in any way with the sport.
That is why i asked what you meant by devoted fan and saying they are the same as her.

She is a journalist - she will write your book for money. Pretty simple.
Sally is deeply invested in the sport. (a) She made boatloads of money from a book about the sport; (b) she reports on the sport in exchange for money; and (c) she is emotionally connected to a disgraced former star of the sport. I don't know how you can reasonably assert that "Sally is not invested in any way with the sport."

I am not suggesting that Sally is "the same" as the devoted fans of cycling. I suggest that Sally's loyal support of filthy Lance Armstrong is analogous to a devoted fan's loyal support of filthy pro cycling. I'd define "devoted fan" as a person who spends their hard earned money on pro cycling-sponsored items.

Sally is an active apologist of the filthy sport (she attempts to influence others), while the devoted pro cycling fan is more passive. So, she's "worse," I guess, in an objective moral sense. But both active Sally and the passive fan are still supporting the filthy circus. It's a little bit hypocritical for the devoted fan who buys his Rabobank jersey to throw stones at Sally Jenkins for her defense of Lance Armstrong.

It all makes for good entertainment, though.
__________________
May 20, 2010: Floyd tells truth.
June 10, 2010: Floyd files qui tam.
Reply With Quote
  #2779  
Old 12-17-12, 21:46
thehog thehog is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,437
Default

Erased!

Quote:
lance armstrong has been stripped of the bbc overseas sports personality award that the american cyclist won in 2003.

Armstrong won the award nine years ago following his seventh tour de france victory, but after his triumphs were wiped from the record books following an investigation into doping allegations the bbc dropped his name from the list of previous winners published in the programme for tonight's event.

The space next to 2003 was left blank. No explanation was offered in the programme as to why no name was listed but the bbc confirmed armstrong's award had been rescinded.

A bbc statement said: "following the uci's decision to strip lance armstrong of his tour de france titles, it has been decided by the bbc to withdraw his overseas sport personality of the year award - armstrong was voted the winner of this award in 2003 based on his sporting achievements at that time."

it is not clear whether armstrong has been asked to return the trophy, which as with the overseas award every year was decided by a panel of judges than by public vote.

Armstrong was stripped of all seven tour wins after the us anti-doping agency revealed systematic doping by the american and his us postal team, with the international cycling union supporting that action.

...
Reply With Quote
  #2780  
Old 12-17-12, 21:50
del1962 del1962 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Erased!




...
Theres some bad maths in there but otherwise good.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.