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  #10161  
Old 12-18-12, 10:27
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Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
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Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
I think Hayles simply wasn't good enough to make the cut.
Hence the high Hct ;-)
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  #10162  
Old 12-18-12, 10:46
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
Steven Burke was the #2 IP man in Beijing. He was the 5th man in the TP squad.

I don't know what the limits were on track team numbers in 2008. They were certainly so tight in 2012 that the French registered Bourgain (Team Sprint and Kierin) in the road squad (he climbed off after the neutral zone!) and the Germans registered Forsterman (also a sprinter) as a mountain biker.

There may have been similarly tight limits in 2008. I recall talk that Cav was in the frame to be a sub in the TP squad if required. He was a low 4:20s IP man in those days, and would presumably be able to deal with the fast start required in a TP.

I think Hayles simply wasn't good enough to make the cut.

Beijing qualification lists:

It was a relatively complicated system - GB were allowed a theoretical max of six 'endurance' riders, but could only declare 5 for the Team Pursuit - in addition, Wiggins as world champion had a 'non-transferable' place in the IP - i.e. he had to get one of the IP places. - since they clearly wanted to declare Wiggins for TP as well - in effect it meant they could have taken Hayles for IP only - but they only had one 'other' IP place come what may - so essentially Hayles had to be within the top 5 anyway.

As for Madison, GB was allowed a team of two, full stop - and it had no bearing on the broad 'endurance' squad. They and the points race places were, it seems, calculated entirely separately from pursuit.

In 2012, UCI/IOC added the extra foible of restricting overall squad size regardless of qualifiers (9 males, 7 females max per track squad). This meant that, in effect the 'big countries' - AUS, GB, Fra and GER in the sprints, had to take their individual riders from their team events - although usually they'd want to anyway. People selected in other cycling disciplines were also allowed to cross over, as it didn't add to numbers - as memory serves, Shanaze Reade from BMX may have been Man One back up for Jess Varnish in women's sprint.

It should be said at this point, that these are not problems that Irish track cycling tend to encounter, more's the pity.

Last edited by martinvickers; 12-18-12 at 10:48.
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  #10163  
Old 12-18-12, 10:47
MatParker117 MatParker117 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Yeah Cav was a bit miffed from memory. And the stench followed him home, yuck.

I thought they took 5-6 riders for the TP, not just 4?
We only named four (Manning, Thomas, Clancy & Wiggins) and your taking the world champs to the olympics no matter what.
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  #10164  
Old 12-18-12, 10:47
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Hence the high Hct ;-)
I don't know. I'm not bothered. The key point though is that Hayles didn't go to the Olympics in 2008 because there were better riders available not because he fell out of favour with Brailsford over the Hct limit breach.
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  #10165  
Old 12-18-12, 10:51
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by MatParker117 View Post
We only named four (Manning, Thomas, Clancy & Wiggins) and your taking the world champs to the olympics no matter what.
I'm pretty sure Tennant and Houvenghal were taken in the 2012 squad as well - the latter had a bit of a meltdown as memory serves over not getting a ride in the qualifers, and thus missing a medal

Ross Edgar and Becky James were on standby, but I'm not sure they were in the actual declared squads as such - Shanaze Reade was also available backup, as was, presumably, in extremis, wiggins himself

EDIT : sorry, realised I misread your post, I was talking about 2012.

Burke was named to the squad in 2008 - but he never rode, so got no medal for it - whereas the danes, aussies and NZL in 2,3 and 4 all 'rode' their #5 in the qualifier round, thus gaining medals for Christensen (DEN) and Gough (NZL)

Last edited by martinvickers; 12-18-12 at 10:56.
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  #10166  
Old 12-18-12, 11:08
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
Burke was named to the squad in 2008 - but he never rode, so got no medal for it...
Crucially, this required Wiggo to ride 6 4k pursuits before taking on the Madison. If Burke had ridden the qualifying round then I'm sure GB would still have progressed and Wiggo would have been that bit fresher for the Madison.

Burke would have got his gold 4 years before he did, Cav might have got his gold, and if he had, then Wiggo would have had a full set of gold medals, thus scuppering Chris Hoy's knighthood. (It would have been hard to knight Hoy for three golds without doing the same to a 3-gold Wiggins, and there's no way Wiggo would have been knighted back then, as the nation had not yet got used to his "quirky" ways!)
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  #10167  
Old 12-18-12, 11:21
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
Crucially, this required Wiggo to ride 6 4k pursuits before taking on the Madison. If Burke had ridden the qualifying round then I'm sure GB would still have progressed and Wiggo would have been that bit fresher for the Madison.

Burke would have got his gold 4 years before he did, Cav might have got his gold, and if he had, then Wiggo would have had a full set of gold medals, thus scuppering Chris Hoy's knighthood. (It would have been hard to knight Hoy for three golds without doing the same to a 3-gold Wiggins, and there's no way Wiggo would have been knighted back then, as the nation had not yet got used to his "quirky" ways!)
They took the same risk in 2012 with Trott - rode her into the ground, trusting she'd keep enough for the Omnium - Houvenaghal was incandescent - but I suspect that trott was holding that whole team together. If Trott's on the dope (and I don't think it's impossible!), they ought to sell it in jars, because she's a bloody beast.

Seems a pattern - BC/GB resists weakening the timed events for the sake of the more 'tactical' ones.

Now the interesting question from a GB perspective for 2016 is will Cav and Wiggins BOTH try ad get into Team pursuit - Wiggins for his 'Redgrave', Cav for his first gold? Both have all but said they'd like to do it -and if so, assuming Clancy sticks with Team Sprint (big if) who else drops out, Thomas?
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  #10168  
Old 12-18-12, 11:24
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
Crucially, this required Wiggo to ride 6 4k pursuits before taking on the Madison. If Burke had ridden the qualifying round then I'm sure GB would still have progressed and Wiggo would have been that bit fresher for the Madison.

Burke would have got his gold 4 years before he did, Cav might have got his gold, and if he had, then Wiggo would have had a full set of gold medals, thus scuppering Chris Hoy's knighthood. (It would have been hard to knight Hoy for three golds without doing the same to a 3-gold Wiggins, and there's no way Wiggo would have been knighted back then, as the nation had not yet got used to his "quirky" ways!)
Big rumours are knighthoods for Wiggins, Brailsford and Ainslee, 'Dame' hood for Storey ( to match Dame TGT)

You just don't get that kind of recognition in Ireland, though I think if Katie taylor wasn't such a committed Christian, we'd probably crown her God!!
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  #10169  
Old 12-18-12, 11:54
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Big rumours are knighthoods for Wiggins, Brailsford and Ainslee, 'Dame' hood for Storey ( to match Dame TGT)
Interesting re Ainslie as it was only a year ago that having (in his view) been cut up by a camera boat in a key race in the World Champs, he jumped out of his boat and swam over to the camera boat to "express his displeasure" with his fists. He was disqualified for this, but such rowdy behaviour seems to have been forgotten. Rightly so, as the GB national sailing team in previous centuries didn't rout various Johnny Foreigner armadas without showing a bit of fighting spirit!
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  #10170  
Old 12-18-12, 12:01
Casualfan Casualfan is offline
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Giro/Tour prep well on track.

Isn't this what every pap does? Take a million pictures of a celebrity, pick one shot out where they are in mid-blink, make it out as if they are wasted?
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