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  #5691  
Old 12-18-12, 04:05
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But Scott, what are we to do if the mentally ill can't afford health care?
We could always try the approach used by Reagan, the Conservative Jesus: Throw them out on the streets and complain about the resulting homeless problem and crime rate. Then when there are no options left for the mentally ill unless they commit crimes, acts that are particularly vicious can be used by rhubroma to call for banning whatever the European ivory tower set has decided Americans should not be allowed to own.
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Last edited by BroDeal; 12-18-12 at 05:14.
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  #5692  
Old 12-18-12, 04:46
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But Scott, what are we to do if the mentally ill can't afford health care?
Trim defense by a few tens of billions. Restrict unemployment to 50 weeks instead of 99. Restrict food stamps to 45 million families instead of 50 million.

In all honesty, I don't even care about these stupid ****ing idiotic arguments anymore. Nothing will change, everybody will make their smart *** comments on both sides and nothing will ever change. Same o, same o. It's over.

I'm damned glad I never had kids.
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  #5693  
Old 12-18-12, 05:24
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Trim defense by a few tens of billions. Restrict unemployment to 50 weeks instead of 99. Restrict food stamps to 45 million families instead of 50 million.

In all honesty, I don't even care about these stupid ****ing idiotic arguments anymore. Nothing will change, everybody will make their smart *** comments on both sides and nothing will ever change. Same o, same o. It's over.

I'm damned glad I never had kids.
Now you need to take the next logical step and conclude that the system is so fundamentally broken that voting is worthless.

MF Global steals $1.6B in customer funds. Congress gives Corzine a free pass, and the only criminal prosecution is an outside trader who is convicted because he lied about his net worth and could not cover his own losses. If the elected officials were not corrupt then they would have jumped at the opportunity to score points with the public by dropping Corzine in the grease, but, nope, being a former head of Goldman Sachs and a governor gives you a license to steal.

Here is a good one for you.

California Highway Patrol division chief Jeff Talbott retired last year as the best-paid officer in the 12 most-populous U.S. states, collecting $483,581 in salary, pension and other compensation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...g-484-000.html
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  #5694  
Old 12-18-12, 07:57
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Then when there are no options left for the mentally ill unless they commit crimes...
Where they can go to jail and get free room, board, health care...

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Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
Restrict unemployment to 50 weeks instead of 99.
Depends on the state. But generally agree. Somewhere like New Jersey or Nevada, I have no issue with 99 weeks. The Dakotas, 26 should be enough. Similar scale for food stamps.
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In all honesty...Nothing will change... It's over.
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Now you need to take the next logical step and conclude that the system is so fundamentally broken that voting is worthless.
And join the ranks of myself, and a many other people. All voting does beyond dishonestly placating you is put you on the list for jury duty.

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  #5695  
Old 12-18-12, 09:20
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A europeanized pseudo intellectual pantywaist won't get far telling Americans that their Bill of Rights is antequated and needs to be repealed or modified to suit the views of countries that have a history of relying on Uncle Sam to protect them. What other amendments do you plan on repealing? How about the first? You could get rid of those pesky violent video games and movies as well as Fox News. What about the fourteenth? You could do something about the majority of violence, which is caused by non-whites. What other rights should we submit to you for your approval?

The problem with liberals is that they have an incredibly poor grasp of the statistics of risk. All they do is wail, "Think of the children!" With their touchy feely crying they refuse to put things in perspective, so they flail around looking for a simplistic solution that always reinforces one of their pet issues.

Every right has a price. The price of gun rights is more murders and the occasional mass shooting by crazies. The chance of dying in a mass shooting in the United States is on par with the chance of being killed by lightning. For every mentally ill person involved in a mass shooting, there are hundreds that kill one or two people; but they don't get the headlines and cannot be used for the liberal agenda, so no one says anything about those litle tragedies, which add up to a far far greater amount of human damage than a few spectacular ones. It is much easier to pat yourself on the back for making a knee-jerk reaction like banning gun rights than deal with the difficult problem of mental illness where there are no easy solutions that you can champion while congratulating yourself for being morally superior to the savages who live in America.

Roughly 40% of households in the U.S. own guns. That has to be about 60 million households. The vast majority own and use guns responsibly, yet you want to ban guns based on an incident that killed a third as many people as die every day in traffic accidents. I know it will shock you, but a bunch of those who die in auto accidents are children. Their deaths are just as tragic as those killed in mass shootings and there are a hell of a lot more of them. Get your priorities straight so you can advocate doing something that will have the greatest effect.



Have you no shame in demagoguing your hysteria about guns using dead children before their corpses are even cold? How dare you. How dare you!
It's inane comments by rednecks like yourself that makes it obvious that the provincial hell of America will never change, never change underlined. They simply decamp in life and leave their minds vacant, which don't contain even the bear minimum BroDeal, so that instead of having ideas in their minds and doing something with them - sensible or otherwise - they harbor and shelter these loathsome sentiments. What is the relationship between car deaths and those by guns!? That they are both fatalities? This means nothing, so your problematizing thesis without bearing in mind a cause and effect analysis is just idiotic.

So let me put it to you real simply, BroDeal: what's necessary is identifying sensible ways with which to at least diminish the statistical probability (now this, yes, has a statistical relevance) that such diabolical crimes with firearms will repeatedly occur. More restrictive gun regulations is only one of a serious of concomitant measures that should be taken, but it needs to start there. America is a country that regulates its toys more than it does real weapons, in the name of childhood saftey and liability causes, which is simply grotesque. How is the statistic about most gun owners being"responsible" relevant to the latest tragedy? They are not the issue, though unfortunately you can't only regulate the irresponsible ones. Everyone needs to be affected. It's the least any conscientious citizen would be willing to do, as a gesture of solidarity and compassion, toward the families who have suffered an unbearable loss by the carnage caused by this uber "right to bear arms" madness. Evidently you don't fall into this class. This means not thinking only of me and "my rights." By contrast your selfishness, and all the people who think as you do, finds it more important that nothing infringes upon "my rights," rather than being affected by measures to combat these fatalities. Well if the country continues to have to face such horrific murders, you guys are ultimately to blame. You don't agree, fine. But you have made your moral choice. While making the birdbrained statement that "every right has its price" under the current circumstances, only demonstrates an appalling callousness of which you should only be ashamed. Every right has its price!? Ask the parents of Newtown at what price. Perhaps that is too "touch-feely" to one such as yourself, but get some perspective, because you obviously have none. Zero. How many massacres will it take before you get one? So if every few months some kids have to die, in addition to all the others, because of this right, well that's just the necessary price to pay. Why don't you just come out and say it, that this is an acceptable price to pay. One wonders at which point, though, is this price no longer acceptable, Bro. How many more children must be sacrificed in the name of your right to arrive at that?

The most deplorable thing about you is that you talk about everything that's irrelevant, both in your proposals and formal critique of me, while under the cloak of constitutional principle, high-mindedness and a false statistical consciousness you recoil from no baseness, which only makes even more insupportable the gravity of your stupidity. Yet you propose nothing pertinent to the essential element in this horror show, nothing useful anyway. This glaring element is the all too facile accessibility and recourse to arms as a catastrophic means of settling accounts - other than patting myself on the back. Even worse your radicalized pro-arms position means that you can only be called a knowing accessory to these continuously repeated murders, are in your own way every bit as twisted and crazy as the killers whom you effectively defend by saying we should do nothing about the gun laws, that guns aren't the problem here, bla, bla, bla. Such irresponsibility coupled with your pompous airs is naturally revolting. Anyone that says the unfathomable quantity of guns circulating in America today and the culture of violence it has produced, shouldn't be more severely regulated because of the Constitution, and that what are by now repeated slaughters simply being the "price to pay" that comes with every right (while taking recourse to automobile death stats to demonstrate what?), is simply a moron, moron underlined.

Mine, therefore, isn't demagoguery; it is rather consciousness of the concrete possibility of a more civil approach. And you are talking to one who has been held-up at gun point in urban America. One of the first things I noticed when I came to Rome, was that I wasn't looking over my shoulder after dark alone on residential streets. The tension I had known under the same city circumstances in the US, was gone. If you're so damn attached to statistics, why don't you at least take a look at the ones that count and which are relative to the problem: such as children ages 5 to 14 in the United States are 13 times as likely to be killed with guns as children in other industrialized countries, according to David Hemenway, a public health specialist at Harvard who has written an excellent book on gun violence. For example.

Come down off your highchair BroDeal, I think my sentiments toward the massacred and this event are a sincere mixture of compassion and outrage, unlike the ghastly unscrupulousness with which you have uselessly attempted to portray me. Calling me motivated by an ideological hysteria only further demonstrates your imbecile senselessness. However, I'm sure those families now dealing with their unbearable losses wouldn't exactly see mine as hysteria. Perhaps you should ask yourself how they would interpret your asinine conviction. You are the worst type of hypocrite, who portrays the object of his scorn with the same repulsive mendacity and baseness that is really his own. In a country in which such depravity, ruthlessness, hypocrisy and tastelessness prevail it's no wonder that the results are so ubiquitously shattering.

Last edited by rhubroma; 12-18-12 at 15:22.
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  #5696  
Old 12-18-12, 12:51
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
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That's okay. I cannot take seriously anyone who was stupid enough to believe Lance Armstrong.

I'm sure those sitting on the Supreme Court will be appalled that you don't take them seriously either. They probably lose a lot of sleep over it.

The second amendment is like the liberals version of conservatives and Roe v. Wade.
Whatever validity there is in your arguments is mostly overwritten by the attempts at cynicism and shock value. I guess since I'm not a man of pigment and don't live in the inner city, I shouldn't care about criminal violence since it won't likely affect me. Rarer still is the likelihood that I'll get pregnant, so I shouldn't worry about that either; and I guess as long as I procure decent food for myself, I shouldn't be concerned about genetic modifications and use of chemicals. And since I don't drive, I personally can't get too worked up about your automotive statistics and fatalities. Tant pis.

So these 60 million households you invoke as justification for your arguments; what percentage of them would normally fall into your category of sheeple? Vapid consumers mindlessly participating in a rigged and biased political system? But suddenly when it suits your arguments those 60 million are standing strong as testimony to what exactly
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  #5697  
Old 12-18-12, 14:14
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Nope, they can't and won't take any action. Why? Because the god da mn NRA is all powerful, and because millions of morons will scream, 'Second Amendment', because after all, this inalienable right of man is etched in the stone of the 18th century, and nobody may ever, EVER **** with it because that would mean the instant end of life as we know it and the country would disintegrate into complete chaos.

Never mind how it would **** Glenn off.
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- Colorado theater shooter, mentally ill (schizophrenic)
- Virginia Tech shooter, mentally ill (selective-mutism, autism?)
- Connecticut shooter, Asperger's, personalty disorder
- Charles Whitman (Texas Tower shooter), brain tumor discovered during autopsy
- Columbine, both kids were taking Luvox, SSRI used for dperession and OCD

Maybe society should put more resources into mental healthcare rather than trying to restrict everyone's rights because of a few crazies.
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Semi-automatic simply means that it is ejects the spent cartridge and loads the next, it doesn't mean that it is a machine gun. Semi-autos are very common for hunting rifles, shotguns etc.
I stayed away from the subject for a few reasons. I felt gutted for the parents who either took their children to school or saw them off at the bus-stop for the last time. Not much makes me feel sick but I was ill to hear about this.

With respect to what Alpe said the lack of sensitivity towards violence,,,, in my opinion is correct. With some shootings I will watch the news with interest and disgust at the twisted individuals that perpetrate the violence and murders.

These senseless killings effected me differently mostly because my daughter is seven years old. Previously a few years back she went to school in Texas. I never felt the school was unsafe. It was in one of the top school districts in the USA. It was in a picture perfect neighborhood. I remember going to visit the school and walking in showing my ID and visiting my daughters class. Nothing was locked up, no buzzer to get into the school. I would never think of the worst case scenario of a mad man gunning down staff and students.

Now my daughter is in another country that has no guns but different fears. I do not get the feeling that it is unsafe but there are some predators of a different kind where she lives and goes to school. I visited her school in August of this year and will visit again in the New Year. I have to buzz the door with a camera and announce my name and that I have a appointment to visit. No guns in the society but yet they go to some serious security measures to ensure safety for the students.

You guys really are polarized in the thinking with regards to guns. I like to joke and all the times I have joked I think most folks here would regard me as a gun owner. Well I have to admit that I own Zero weapons. None and I don't even hunt! I have owned weapons in the past way back when .....as a teenager growing up for hunting (rabbit, squirrel, dear, turkey, ducks, & other various animals that most civilized humans do not eat.) but we done so because it was a way of life. Part of who we were and a source for food.
I moved away from home exactly 1 day after High School graduation,,,,,,I went a world away basically another country called Boston Massachusetts. That was for school and from that point on until I joined the USMC I became a foreigner from where I grew up. I was taught to be a grunt in the marines I was good at the use of weapons and moved along fairly fast. Decided to not sign another contract with the great government and got out. Never have I owned a weapon since then. None of that has to do with anything except my own temperament. I have no patience for most folks who have and handle weapons. In my opinion they are not qualified to handle the weapons.

Would I ever push or vote for any legislation that will limit the right to bear arms? Probably not. I do not think it is something that needs to be debated. Just like I believe the abortion issue and religion issues are settled and should not be debated anymore. Maybe I am simple but those issues **** me off because it is a giant waste of time, money and energy when these clowns should be more focused on the economy and spending.

Mental issues appear to be rampant with the youth today. Maybe we should be looking at providing help and spending some money in that directions??

The misunderstanding about weapon nomenclature is obviously something that the media likes to put out. They say semi-automatic as if it is a machine gun. Well it is not. Almost all weapons sold today are semi-automatic to include handguns. Examples of the other types- bolt action rifle, Pump action shot gun.

Stay safe everyone. Stay Frosty.
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Old 12-18-12, 14:51
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...................
Would I ever push or vote for any legislation that will limit the right to bear arms? Probably not. I do not think it is something that needs to be debated.....

Stay safe everyone. Stay Frosty.
Thanks for that excellent post, Glenn. To be honest, I first thought that you were a gun nut, as well as a few other things. In time though, my doubts increased and I grew to appreciate your unique, quirky sense of humor, so I'm delighted to read about your background, etc.

My only comment would be, that the logic of your position should lead you to accept that some sort of revision of existing gun laws, or restriction on the ease of access to weapons, is clearly necessary - and not just because this time it was 20 small innocents. That should at least be the starting point for a package of measures.

I think everyone in the entire world, without exception, reacted differently to this outrage than to past ones for the simple reason that most of us are parents or, in my case, already grandparents. Anything to do with small children hits home harder, right in the gut, and truly makes you feel sick. Everyone I know shed tears over this incident. I have repeatedly been in the position of having to explain US gun madness to foreigners. Not one of all the people of many nationalities with whom I have personal or virtual contact, apart from certain Americans, thinks that the current state of affairs is in any way tolerable. Even some people who normally describe themselves as 'conservative Republicans' have now come to the conclusion that 'something' needs to be done.
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Old 12-18-12, 14:59
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Thanks for that excellent post, Glenn. To be honest, I first thought that you were a gun nut, as well as a few other things. In time though, my doubts increased and I grew to appreciate your unique, quirky sense of humor, so I'm delighted to read about your background, etc.

My only comment would be, that the logic of your position should lead you to accept that some sort of revision of existing gun laws, or restriction on the ease of access to weapons, is clearly necessary - and not just because this time it was 20 small innocents. That should at least be the starting point for a package of measures.

I think everyone in the entire world, without exception, reacted differently to this outrage than to past ones for the simple reason that most of us are parents or, in my case, already grandparents. Anything to do with small children hits home harder, right in the gut, and truly makes you feel sick. Everyone I know shed tears over this incident. I have repeatedly been in the position of having to explain US gun madness to foreigners. Not one of all the people of many nationalities with whom I have personal or virtual contact, apart from certain Americans, thinks that the current state of affairs is in any way tolerable. Even some people who normally describe themselves as 'conservative Republicans' have now come to the conclusion that 'something' needs to be done.
Well to be fair I did say probably.
This is the first time I have ever considered my view or beliefs on gun control. I always assumed the subject had been decided done over etc.

The mother who had the weapons was responsible for her and her son's saftey. What was the need for weapons with ammunition to be in her home in such quantities not locked up? I am not sure about the details and I hate to make my opinions based on half of the info.

If I had a child that was unstable mentally, It would cause me to rethink having any weapons around the house. Just me.
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Old 12-18-12, 15:23
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The event in CT will change the landscape on a few fronts.

Ben Stein;



We should look at sensible restrictions on guns, magazines, etc. I think Joe Manchin's take is on the money;



Mental illness and how we as a society deals with it should be on the table as well. This blog post gives some insight in to what parents of mentally ill children are facing right now, today.



Read the entire post here (it's well worth a few minutes of your time);

http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

This is a gun issue.

This is a mental health issue.

This is a societal de-sensitization to death and violence issue.

This is an electronic age issue.


If we want to just say it's guns, then that's fine. It would be like saying 9/11 was about planes.
Wow, Scotty! There's hope for you yet. I agree with all your comments here. No one (that I've heard) ever said that it was only a gun issue. I'm sure that we could all produce lists of the many things that we think are ****ed up and wrong about our country. While we would differ on some items, I'm sure we'd all agree on quite a few others.

I was truly shocked after reading the 'I am AL's mother' blog, and after talking to my gf (a nurse) in the US last night about the question of 'mental health'. I truly had no idea that a previously existing and functioning system was more or less dismantled completely due entirely to spending cuts.

I could be very simplistic and say, just look at what might have been avoided since Columbine (or earlier,) if only a tiny fraction of what we spend on 'defense' had been sacrificed in order to maintain a functioning mental health care system. But of course, there's more to it than just that.

I do, however, share your despair.
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