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  #10191  
Old 12-19-12, 22:15
biopass biopass is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
You don't have to be a wizzard to see that Sky's zerotolerance is a big fail. A smoke screen and not even a good one. It's good of course to see Tygart pointing this out.
The best thing Sky can do is have guys like JV, Millar and (sadly as of late) Walsh, i.e. guys in whom we (are supposed to) trust, do more mouth-to-mouth propaganda for Team Sky.
Why? What have JV and Millars talking accomplished compared to SKY? Who just fires and dismishes everyone within their ranks who has minimal involvement with doping in the past.
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  #10192  
Old 12-19-12, 22:54
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
Tygart is "very concerned" about the zero-tolerance approach taken by Team Sky to drugs, fearing it could be counterproductive.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...olerance-usada
OK, he's entitled to his opinion, and should be heard, BUT I think there's more than one way to go forward. In 5 years, we'll know which way has worked best. Sky can't manage anything other than Sky: currently, it seems to work (on the outside). Time will tell about its long term affect.
IF they had confidence in a UCI led truth & reconciliation process, maybe they wouldn't be doing what they are.
I wish there would be a UCI led truth & reconciliation process, but I sure as hell ain't holding my breath.
I say let Sky get on with it their way: we'll see.
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  #10193  
Old 12-19-12, 23:38
sniper sniper is online now
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Originally Posted by Fortyninefourteen View Post
Their ZTP was mandated by the sponsor, after the USADA report. Brailsford did not create this headache.
do we have DB on the record saying he doesn't agree with the policy but is forced by the sponsor? Not that I'm aware. We don't really know what DB really thinks of this policy and whether he would have had the power to block these measures, do we?

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Originally Posted by biopass View Post
Why? What have JV and Millars talking accomplished compared to SKY? Who just fires and dismishes everyone within their ranks who has minimal involvement with doping in the past.
well, JV managed to pull the wool over Walsh's eyes wrt Sky, at least partially, meaning we've (hopefully only temporarily) lost one of the critical minds who helped bring down harmstrong and (if JV hadn't pulled the wool over his eyes) could have helped in REALLY changing cycling now rather than pretending that cycling has already changed significantly (JV, Millar).
Bottom line: Sky is keeping us for fools, and Sky propaganda like what we hear from JV and Millar enables Sky to do that.

Last edited by sniper; 12-19-12 at 23:41.
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  #10194  
Old 12-20-12, 00:48
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richtea richtea is offline
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
To put it into its most basic terms, I did not say that there is an Eastern Bloc-style doping program going on at BC. There may or may not be, but I don't know enough about track cycling and its workings to make any calls.

I did however, as cautiously-worded as possible, suggest that it might be that some riders who would have been low down the priority list (such as eg those road riders outside of British Cycling, which had until recently been mostly track-focused, but looking to take advantage of their being around at the same time) might be tempted to cut corners to jump the queue, as it were.
You claimed Froome was less consistent than Schleck. Regardless of what you think about his rise to to prominence, his results over 6 months are substantially superior to (and more consistent than) any season of Schleck's I remember. Do you really think he is less consistent than Schleck?
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  #10195  
Old 12-20-12, 02:29
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
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I think it's more Froome being one of the worst on the road in Corsica and Romandie only to emerge with superpowers in the Dauphine. I think 2013 we will see him follow the Wiggins model though.

Andy Schleck for all his antics and the fact he only cares about two races, still manages to finish ahead of the sprinters in most stage races.
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  #10196  
Old 12-20-12, 08:52
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
You don't have to be a wizzard to see that Sky's zerotolerance is a big fail. A smoke screen and not even a good one. It's good of course to see Tygart pointing this out.
The best thing Sky can do is have guys like JV, Millar and (sadly as of late) Walsh, i.e. guys in whom we (are supposed to) trust, do more mouth-to-mouth propaganda for Team Sky.
A wizard might come in handy, though. Maybe he could pull a few more, high profile dissenters out of his hat?
Lets hope Kimmage doesn't say anything nice about Sky, any time soon, otherwise it won't be about zero tolerance, but zero quotable prophets.
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  #10197  
Old 12-20-12, 09:05
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I reckon if they could get 2 of Ashenden, Kimmage or Lemond to support them, they'd have the full house.
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  #10198  
Old 12-20-12, 09:10
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Originally Posted by Ferminal View Post
Andy Schleck for all his antics and the fact he only cares about two races, still manages to finish ahead of the sprinters in most stage races.
Excluding this year which is/was a write off he has been remarkably consistent when just looking at the Tour and LBL.

In fact, that is what makes it all the more frustrating when he appears to be lazy and unmotivated for other races.
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  #10199  
Old 12-20-12, 09:12
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
Excluding this year which is/was a write off he has been remarkably consistent when just looking at the Tour and LBL.

In fact, that is what makes it all the more frustrating when he appears to be lazy and unmotivated for other races.
Yeh, almost like he always has the form but just sets a max on his powermeter and refuses to go over it.

It's not even like it's a special training method as big brother is a lot more adventurous.
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  #10200  
Old 12-20-12, 09:27
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
Tygart is "very concerned" about the zero-tolerance approach taken by Team Sky to drugs, fearing it could be counterproductive.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...olerance-usada
Tygart is viewing this from the angle of what's best for cycling. Sky are viewing this as what's best for Sky.

I don't think Sky really care that much if it emerges that AN Other rider or support staff has been involved in doping in the past having signed the document. They will be able to say that they gave the rider a fair chance, were lied to, and in the absence of any ability to put a rider under oath, there's nothing more that they could have done. Thus, Sky's backside will be covered re hiring people with a dodgy past, one would think, which is their prime concern.

They clearly don't care too much about losing key personnel who can't sign the document, given how many such personnel they have lost.

This is obviously a completely different issue to any current doping. If that emerges, then Sky and the riders are stuffed, irrespective of what documents have been signed.
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