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  #10211  
Old 12-20-12, 13:12
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGT View Post
Re' Walsh, for me this just stinks of the omerta. "Bad Blood" by Whittle springs to mind. Instead, this time its not an individual, its a whole Team.

Lets not forget, Sunday Times is part of News Corp, owned by that sh!t that is Murdoch. Sky is owned by? You guessed it. He is hardly going to be slagging off Sky is he?
Like I said.
Nobody thought that, until a couple of weeks ago.
Now, the guy took on Lance and his legion of lawyers, refused to be bullied or bought off, the guy who nailed Armstrong almost a decade or go and opened the eyes many posters here in the process, becomes overnight a Sky lackey.

Proof? None required.

Clinic idol to false prophet for not following the party line.

Anyone who thinks that, should go back and re-read (assuming they have read it in the first place) LA Confidential, reflect and then, give thanks.
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  #10212  
Old 12-20-12, 14:04
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
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Why would Walsh write an article about the doping practices of someone he doesn't believe dopes?

He knew for a fact that Armstrong doped, hence why he pursued him.
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  #10213  
Old 12-20-12, 14:19
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Like I said.
Nobody thought that, until a couple of weeks ago.
Now, the guy took on Lance and his legion of lawyers, refused to be bullied or bought off, the guy who nailed Armstrong almost a decade or go and opened the eyes many posters here in the process, becomes overnight a Sky lackey.

Proof? None required.

Clinic idol to false prophet for not following the party line.

Anyone who thinks that, should go back and re-read (assuming they have read it in the first place) LA Confidential, reflect and then, give thanks.
Yes and No, Mellow Velo. The trouble with this analysis is that it makes the mistake of seeing everything through the eyes of the Lance case. The Clinic is so obsessed with Lance, it totally colours their opinions on everything to do with pro-cycling. By this way of thinking, Walsh is "good" because he fought Lance. Tygart is similarly "good". Where they differ is in their opinions on Sky. In fact, Sky-scepticism is rapidly taking over from Lance-doubt. By this way of thinking, anything Walsh says now is tainted, whereas Tagart remains a true god worth following.

What we need to do, I think, is way up comments on the basis of evidence and cooroboration.
(Incidentally, when Walsh says: "I had a chat with Brailsford and liked what he said" I interperate that as Brailsfod saying "Yeh, when we found out about Leinders and Rogers past I was gutted. They lied to me, so we've got rid of them; but please don't print that, that has to be off the record.")

But that's just my take on it: I'm not too bothered about other anti-dope campaigners saying they think Sky are clean (or dirty), unless they have some evidence to back that up. And that evidence has to exist whether they liked Lance or not.
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  #10214  
Old 12-20-12, 15:56
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The Hitch The Hitch is offline
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Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Walsh, the anti doping crusader was unimpeachable...............until now.
Now he doesn't understand, some even say bought and paid for by Sky.

The cloth keeps getting cut, but there ain't much width left.
Not for.me, i criticised him.before.

But no one is unimpeachable. Doesn't matter who chanes sides, if the facts remain the same then the facts remain the same.

Im surprised ya'll are acting as if 1 guy saying he hopes sky are clean is such a game changer.

go checkout Libertine Seguro's posts for a quick summary of some of the reasons why some of us think Wiggins and Froome are suspicious.

Those arguments in those posts are the pillars on which our scepticism against the Sky team stand on.

Walsh never was one of those pillars. He had nothing to do with it.

So to come in now that Walsh (who never was part of the discussion) said something and act as if our entire argument has been blown away (or "not much cloth left" as you put it) is a bit cheap to say the least.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.

Last edited by The Hitch; 12-20-12 at 17:13.
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  #10215  
Old 12-20-12, 16:31
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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Which game would that be changing? Convincing such as yourself Sky/Sky riders are racing clean? Lets face it that's never going to happen. No matter what happens from here on in, you'll always view 2012 Sky as tainted, so there's no point trying.

For me though it adds to the peace of mind to a degree.
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  #10216  
Old 12-20-12, 17:20
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The Hitch The Hitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Like I said.
Nobody thought that, until a couple of weeks ago.
Now, the guy took on Lance and his legion of lawyers, refused to be bullied or bought off, the guy who nailed Armstrong almost a decade or go and opened the eyes many posters here in the process, becomes overnight a Sky lackey.
THere is far more to doping than Lance Armstrong. Half the gts of the last 2 decades have been won by people who doped and only a fraction of that was Lance Armstrong.

But here you are mocking those who think - if it happened so many times before could it happen again, with cries that they have nothing to go on as Froome goes from continental level bottle carrier to worlds greatest rider over night.

If that rider was Italian or Spanish would you be paraphrasing Brunyeel about how the sceptics have nothing to go on?

Would you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
Which game would that be changing? Convincing such as yourself Sky/Sky riders are racing clean? Lets face it that's never going to happen. No matter what happens from here on in, you'll always view 2012 Sky as tainted, so there's no point trying.

For me though it adds to the peace of mind to a degree.
Excuse me, by what right and on what basis do you tell me that my opinion will never change?

Just because you are incapable of thinking rationally because you are blinded by patriotism does not mean others are.

Dont make the mistake of thinking everyone is as small minded as you.

If youve forgoten again the case against Sky, then i urge you to skimread LS's posts once again.

Those arguments are what my case against Sky stands on, and I wont let you get away with trying to hide our arguments under the carpet and frame us as bitter conspiracy theorists out with a grudge.

And since you initiated the amateur mind reading hour, ill go ahead and make an attempt at it myself.

You say Walsh saying he hopes Sky may actually have won clean, gives you peace of mind.

Based on many of the contributions you have made to this subforum in the last few months I am going to go out on a limb and question if you even knew who Walsh was until he said he likes Sky.
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The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
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  #10217  
Old 12-20-12, 18:29
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
Not really - he just has a much better and proven track record for getting the truth than, say, yourself, that's all.
That's the way I see it.
Proven track record; experienced, determined, words and deeds to match.
A pillar of the anti-doping community.

The Hitch says Walsh has nothing to do with the "pillars" upon which the dirty Sky argument is based.
Fair enough, but if that is so, why then do posters feel the need to attack the man's credibility, when we all know he is more credible than any poster, here?
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  #10218  
Old 12-20-12, 20:26
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Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post

Excuse me, by what right and on what basis do you tell me that my opinion will never change?

Just because you are incapable of thinking rationally because you are blinded by patriotism does not mean others are.

Dont make the mistake of thinking everyone is as small minded as you.

If youve forgoten again the case against Sky, then i urge you to skimread LS's posts once again.

Those arguments are what my case against Sky stands on, and I wont let you get away with trying to hide our arguments under the carpet and frame us as bitter conspiracy theorists out with a grudge.

And since you initiated the amateur mind reading hour, ill go ahead and make an attempt at it myself.

You say Walsh saying he hopes Sky may actually have won clean, gives you peace of mind.

Based on many of the contributions you have made to this subforum in the last few months I am going to go out on a limb and question if you even knew who Walsh was until he said he likes Sky.
Most of LS's excellent posts are, naturally, about the past. Suspicious performances, suspicious team mates, suspicious doctors etc. Any one of which in isolation you could dismiss easily. However, as I understand it, for him (and that is where I disagree with him) all these things taken together suggest Sky and/or individual riders on Sky are doping.

I'm struggling to see what evidence would make you and him change your minds as it is always harder to prove a negative. Would the release of the blood passport, which is not cast iron proof but suggestive, do?
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  #10219  
Old 12-20-12, 21:53
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Excuse me, by what right and on what basis do you tell me that my opinion will never change?
Right? Freedom of expression - Article 10, ECHR. 1st Amendment, US Constitution.

Basis? Past experience.
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  #10220  
Old 12-20-12, 21:59
armchairclimber armchairclimber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
THere is far more to doping than Lance Armstrong. Half the gts of the last 2 decades have been won by people who doped and only a fraction of that was Lance Armstrong.

But here you are mocking those who think - if it happened so many times before could it happen again, with cries that they have nothing to go on as Froome goes from continental level bottle carrier to worlds greatest rider over night.

If that rider was Italian or Spanish would you be paraphrasing Brunyeel about how the sceptics have nothing to go on?

Would you?



Excuse me, by what right and on what basis do you tell me that my opinion will never change?

Just because you are incapable of thinking rationally because you are blinded by patriotism does not mean others are.

Dont make the mistake of thinking everyone is as small minded as you.

If youve forgoten again the case against Sky, then i urge you to skimread LS's posts once again.

Those arguments are what my case against Sky stands on, and I wont let you get away with trying to hide our arguments under the carpet and frame us as bitter conspiracy theorists out with a grudge.

And since you initiated the amateur mind reading hour, ill go ahead and make an attempt at it myself.

You say Walsh saying he hopes Sky may actually have won clean, gives you peace of mind.

Based on many of the contributions you have made to this subforum in the last few months I am going to go out on a limb and question if you even knew who Walsh was until he said he likes Sky.
Pompous post of the year. Well done.
You are presumptuous about others on this board often enough and play the man not the ball often enough (including in the above post). Stop crying you wuss.
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