U.S. Politics - Page 593 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Cafe > General

General Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #5921  
Old 12-21-12, 22:22
ChrisE's Avatar
ChrisE ChrisE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterhammer View Post
I have found myself agreeing with Chris several times today. It really is rather worrying.....
Well, stay out of the clinic because I am glad Heras has been restored as the 2005 Vuelta champ.
__________________
"He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife." - Al Czervik
Reply With Quote
  #5922  
Old 12-21-12, 22:25
Amsterhammer's Avatar
Amsterhammer Amsterhammer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3,187
Default




I guess that's why the potential patriots who are going to resist Obama's socialist revolution are all down at the gun store buying up the heavy stuff. I guess that the 300m already out there just aren't enough.
__________________
The LOTE has won, all hail the LOTE.
Reply With Quote
  #5923  
Old 12-21-12, 22:31
ChrisE's Avatar
ChrisE ChrisE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterhammer View Post



I guess that's why the potential patriots who are going to resist Obama's socialist revolution are all down at the gun store buying up the heavy stuff. I guess that the 300m already out there just aren't enough.
Of course. You know, tyranny is gonna show up at the doorstep like Mr. Rogers, and if we are packing we can blow tyranny away!

Ooops, how did tyranny get these drones, apache helicopters, missiles, and those cool guns that Jesse Ventura used in Predator?

Hey! Who is the ******* that let the tyrannical govt. get all of these things we can't buy at Walmart?
__________________
"He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife." - Al Czervik
Reply With Quote
  #5924  
Old 12-21-12, 23:22
BroDeal's Avatar
BroDeal BroDeal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Above 5000 feet
Posts: 12,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
How about we start with, oh, I dunno..... better mental health care access and treatment?
Why don't we start with clamping down on illegal immigration. That would have a huge effect on all crime. Unrestrained immigration puts a downward pressure on wages, which hurts the working poor. That increases crime as well. It also puts a huge financial strain on cities and states. Plus, I would be able to order a Big Mac in English from a young kid who is getting his first work experience.
__________________
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
Reply With Quote
  #5925  
Old 12-22-12, 00:00
Merckx index's Avatar
Merckx index Merckx index is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,936
Default

Quote:
Really? Once the criminal elements know for certain nobody is carrying except them gun violence will certainly be reduced or eliminated.
You might be partly right. When Britain banned guns following Dunblane, homicides went way down, as noted by Amster, but armed robberies I believe have gone up. There are certainly far more armed robberies in Britain now than there were half a century ago, when there was essentially no gun control. This may be in part because criminals know people can’t defend themselves. But the fact remains that homicides have gone down.

Quote:
Allow me to make some statistical comparisons between the US, and countries without a legalized, obsessive gun culture.
While these comparisons are quite germane to the discussion, I still think the “more guns, more homicides” formula is overly simplistic. Russia has very tough gun control laws, but a homicide rate more than double that of the U.S. Why? I don’t know, but I suspect that a lot of Russians get around the laws. Bribery is common there, and there is a very active black market.

Then there is Japan, with strong gun control and virtually no homicides. But the police in Japan have much more power over suspects than in the U.S. Also, the community in general in Japan has more influence over individuals. Japanese do not have the individualist, frontier mentality common in America. This almost certainly contributes to the lower murder rate.

I think the better statistical comparisons to make are the same country before and after gun control. This eliminates differences in culture between countries. Britain experienced a large drop in homicides following the ban, though as I noted, armed robberies have gone up.

Quote:
Homes are safer without alcohol too. Let's outlaw that at the same time.

Read up on the part alcohol plays in gun crimes, maybe we're looking at the wrong culprit. Of course drinking is a lot more popular so we can't slaughter that sacred cow, can we?
Been there, done that. Remember the Prohibition?

But you make a good point. Most of the people who oppose gun control have no problem advocating tough laws against drugs, which are not used to kill other people. In fact, we know if drugs were legalized, there would be far fewer murders, particularly in the countries supplying the drugs, but also in the U.S.

Edit: The NRA has proposed putting armed guards in schools. While I strongly disagree with them on gun control in general, this is basically what I have been saying. It does not mean arming teachers. It just means having a security guard at the door. As many others have pointed out, we routinely have many other security/safety features in schools and other public buildings, such as fire alarms, chemical hazard checks, etc. I think this is in line with that.

As I suggested before, leave it up the individual schools whether to do this or not. Does the extra cost and (for now) minor hassle justified by preventing what is a very low probability but horrific event? In any case, I think this issue should be considered separately from gun control. If you have trained guards, there is no need for citizens to be armed.

Last edited by Merckx index; 12-22-12 at 00:41.
Reply With Quote
  #5926  
Old 12-22-12, 00:55
phanatic phanatic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterhammer View Post
Where's the crime in that delusion? How is it paranoid to want real safeguards against tyranny?
Is it really a delusion?
A tyrannical government can only bring limited and specific pressure to bear on a people before fracturing the coalition that is enforcing the power. The government will only have so many people at its disposal for the dirty work, so they can only target a few areas at a time, and if they are being picked off by a people willing to face prison and death, there will be a need to redouble the propaganda effort (or material incentives) to recruit enforcers. Of course propaganda is the air we breathe now, so ....
Reply With Quote
  #5927  
Old 12-22-12, 01:06
Hugh Januss's Avatar
Hugh Januss Hugh Januss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 5,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Why don't we start with clamping down on illegal immigration. That would have a huge effect on all crime. Unrestrained immigration puts a downward pressure on wages, which hurts the working poor. That increases crime as well. It also puts a huge financial strain on cities and states. Plus, I would be able to order a Big Mac in English from a young kid who is getting his first work experience.
Did that raven dude who posted here a couple or 3 years ago hack your account? Why is it that you guys all got the "right to bear arms" part down pat, yet you don't give a crap about the "give us your poor huddled masses" part?
__________________
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings."

Proud member of the Clinic 1200
Reply With Quote
  #5928  
Old 12-22-12, 01:52
phanatic phanatic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Januss View Post
Did that raven dude who posted here a couple or 3 years ago hack your account? Why is it that you guys all got the "right to bear arms" part down pat, yet you don't give a crap about the "give us your poor huddled masses" part?
One is in the Constitution and grounded on a political outlook; the other is from a poem etched in the side of a monument foisted upon us by a people of a very different 18th century revolution.
Reply With Quote
  #5929  
Old 12-22-12, 04:42
Hugh Januss's Avatar
Hugh Januss Hugh Januss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 5,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phanatic View Post
One is in the Constitution and grounded on a political outlook; the other is from a poem etched in the side of a monument foisted upon us by a people of a very different 18th century revolution.
Yeah, a little more recent, more in tune with the times and the state of the world a bit less long ago. Times change, and the world moves forward. Go ahead and live in 1776, let me know how that works out for you.
__________________
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings."

Proud member of the Clinic 1200

Last edited by Hugh Januss; 12-22-12 at 04:44.
Reply With Quote
  #5930  
Old 12-22-12, 05:40
Merckx index's Avatar
Merckx index Merckx index is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phanatic View Post
One is in the Constitution and grounded on a political outlook; the other is from a poem etched in the side of a monument foisted upon us by a people of a very different 18th century revolution.
Yeah, and the people who wrote the Constitution were all Native Americans, the original settlers of this country, who hated the notion of others coming to the land that was rightfully theirs to seek a better life.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.