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  #581  
Old 12-23-12, 20:14
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Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
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They may be doping, they may well be. I find it entirely plausible.

But none of that is evidence. Real world, and most definitely not in any court of law. Rogers and Yates can be discounted out of hand...most likely have previous on the doping front but find me a top 100 tour rider or a former pro DS who doesn't. The other stuff is just baa.
The real world rarely entered pro cycling and caught the dopers. When it did enter it invariably was the police of customs officials who did the dirty work for the sport.

We are not a court of Law, we are fans who are discussing the obvious, Sky dominated the biggest race of the year in a manner that to fans is as obvious as night follows day.
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  #582  
Old 12-23-12, 20:18
Joachim Joachim is offline
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No, some fans. But not many.
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  #583  
Old 12-23-12, 22:00
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DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
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..But none of that is evidence.
Again with the demands for "proof" that is impossible to satisfy and therefore Sky didn't dope for the 2012 miracle. This all has the same feel of the Armstrong myth when it was in full bloom.

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Real world, and most definitely not in any court of law. .
This is a failed argument for many countries. For most countries, sporting decisions are non-judicial.
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
but find me a top 100 tour rider or a former pro DS who doesn't.
What's your point here? Everyone is doing so why bother enforcing it? Athletes have died in what amounts to uncontrolled human experimentation with oxygen vector doping. Is killing people cool now too?
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  #584  
Old 12-23-12, 22:07
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Wow! So many straw men in one post.

Sorry, I won't bother responding to you.
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  #585  
Old 12-23-12, 22:22
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
They may be doping, they may well be. I find it entirely plausible.

But none of that is evidence. Real world, and most definitely not in any court of law. Rogers and Yates can be discounted out of hand...most likely have previous on the doping front but find me a top 100 tour rider or a former pro DS who doesn't. The other stuff is just baa.
There is no evidence Ivan Basso doped in the 2006 Giro. No evidence Contador doped in any of his GT wins except the 2010 Tour. No evidence Cunego doped in 2004 except what Cunego himself has said with a nudge and a wink. No evidence any of Alejandro Valverde's results were ill-gotten - he's never failed a test.

The Clinic is not a court of law, and whether somebody doped or not is only a court of law situation on rare occasions. Only a small fraction of the dopers are ever caught. But absence of the kind of evidence that would be permissible in a court of law does not mean that there are no dots to join.

If something walks, swims, flies, looks, and quacks like a duck, a court might require further evidence; independent witnesses that corroborate your story that what you saw was, in fact, a duck; DNA tests and so forth to confirm this finding. However, in the absence of these, the duck might walk away on a technicality, but that doesn't mean there is not reasonable suspicion that the suspect walked, swam, flew, looked, and quacked like a duck and therefore was, in fact, a duck.
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  #586  
Old 12-23-12, 23:23
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  #587  
Old 12-23-12, 23:24
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Hi,

Joachim has caused a bit of a stir on here and so I have deleted some posts to try and defuse the thread. Apologies if you feel offended if any of yours have gone.

Joachim, new posters are always welcome on CN, but maybe tone down your posts a bit bud.
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  #588  
Old 12-23-12, 23:35
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Hi,

Joachim has caused a bit of a stir on here and so I have deleted some posts to try and defuse the thread. Apologies if you feel offended if any of yours have gone.
Just got back from a rather excellent dinner. What did I miss?

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Joachim, new posters are always welcome on CN, but maybe tone down your posts a bit bud.
Was there anything, in particular, which caused offence?
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  #589  
Old 12-23-12, 23:39
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Just got back from a rather excellent dinner. What did I miss?



Was there anything, in particular, which caused offence?
I hope you had a good meal. You missed nothing on here. Your trolling has caused a stir though. Maybe allow yourself a Cognac and Cuban before you start again.
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  #590  
Old 12-24-12, 06:17
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Oh I'm sorry. You are right. I was trolling. What I actually think is that Team Sky run a team wide doping policy. Actually I don't just think it, I know it. I don't have any evidence on which to back this up other than they won some races, but I still know it.

There. That's better isn't it.
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