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  #10581  
Old 12-24-12, 17:11
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
As you're fully aware this isn't 266 pages of "Sky hired Leinders -> doping".
Sorry, what does the 'this' refer to?
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  #10582  
Old 12-24-12, 17:15
Fearless Greg Lemond's Avatar
Fearless Greg Lemond Fearless Greg Lemond is offline
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
Lol, don't use words you don't know the meaning of. Maybe you mean 'idiocy'.

As for the rest of your well argued exposť: see above for the reply.
Semantics, and for the rest again bs. Apologists come in all sizes.
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  #10583  
Old 12-24-12, 17:16
JRanton JRanton is offline
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Frankly I would be shocked if Team Sky didn't have ex-pro riders on its support staff who are also ex-dopers.

Sky's zero tolerance approach may be hypocritical, it may be more about PR than anything else, but saying 'you won't get a job with us if you are a known doper, and if you are subsequently exposed you are sacked' is certainly better than doing nothing.

Getting people out of the system forever is the way forward.
If there really was a zero tolerance approach there would hardly be anyone left on the team...

Can I ask why you're seemingly so confident that Sky are clean?
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  #10584  
Old 12-24-12, 17:18
thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
...and what of our good friend Mr. Froome? How does one explain that science experiment?!

WE need to call him the "ET hypothesises" in this argument. Whilst one explains Wiggins "natural" improvement similar comparison does not apply to the Froome phenomenon.

Now we know about Lienders the dots clearly join to those "suspect" performances of Sky very neatly.


For simplicity; If "Wiggins" is Y and "Froome is X then X is not equal to Y thus "doping". Period.
Very true.
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  #10585  
Old 12-24-12, 17:25
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by JRanton View Post
If there really was a zero tolerance approach there would hardly be anyone left on the team...
Possibly, and the same would be true for many other teams were they to do anything. Do you think Sky's (sham or otherwise) zero-tolerance policy is going to make riders and other professionals with a doping past more likely or less likely to respond to Team Sky job vacancies?

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Can I ask why you're seemingly so confident that Sky are clean?
I'm not confident that they are clean.
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  #10586  
Old 12-24-12, 17:31
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BroDeal BroDeal is offline
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
And what about Nibali? You don't believe in him either?

Because no matter which way you put it, Wiggins was at Nibali's level or above in the mountains of the Tour 2009. Just like this year. Actually it's in the time trials where he made a big leap, but even there he profited from the fact that T. Martin and Cancellara sort of went AWOL this year, don't you think?
Oh, brother. Nibali was twenty-five years old in 2009. He was not a team leader. In 2012 he was twenty-eight, an age where he should be at his peak. He has developed as expected, and won the Vuelta when he was twenty-six. Wiggins went through that age period and we saw nothing.
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  #10587  
Old 12-24-12, 17:34
King Of The Wolds King Of The Wolds is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
This is naive and / or strawmanish (expect to hire an avg gp with no experience).

Experienced GPs who have worked for sports teams have enough experience to work with a pro cycling team. The human body doesn't differ just coz you're a pro cyclist - it reacts the same way to treatment and suffers the same maladies. Where do you think all the amateur cyclists go for treatment? Do you really think pros experience something different to an amateur?

Leinders was hired when?

Atfer Txema died. Txema, who had been ex-doper Millar's soigneur and again, close personal friend, back in the day. And in that same race, a number of Sky riders had to pull out.

Txema was in hospital. No GP is going to trump hospital and A&E care. Noone.

The saddle sore post above is due to the fact that that was one of the reasons given by Brailsford for the hiring of Leinders. Saddle sores. And riding in the heat.
Where do amateur cyclists go? Is that a trick question? They go to the same place that the pros would go - the best doctor available to treat a specific condition, given your economic, social and geographical circumstances. To your average amateur, that might mean your local quack, to a professional cyclist, it might mean a high paid, experienced, specialist.

Re: experience required, you and I can argue all we like about whether cycling specific experience, or just elite sport experience is general is required, but the outcome is irrelevant. An employer, in any country, in any walk of life, in any business, value experience highly as a criteria for employment, almost above anything else. The more relevant, specific and in depth, the better. That's just a fact of life, and I've been on the receiving end myself, when I felt I was the best man for the job. I'm sure we can all agree that's how it works - and Sky have simply followed that principle.
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  #10588  
Old 12-24-12, 17:38
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Oh, brother. Nibali was twenty-five years old in 2009. He was not a team leader. In 2012 he was twenty-eight, an age where he should be at his peak. He has developed as expected, and won the Vuelta when he was twenty-six. Wiggins went through that age period and we saw nothing.
It took Wiggins ten years of pro tour team road riding to grind himself up to a GT win. It took Nibali five. Which one of those looks more like 'coming out of nowhere'
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  #10589  
Old 12-24-12, 17:40
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Sorry, what does the 'this' refer to?
This thread. There are more trees in this forest than just Leinders.
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  #10590  
Old 12-24-12, 17:41
JRanton JRanton is offline
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A quick straw poll:

Is there anyone posting here who has an above 50% confidence that Sky and particularly the Tenerife gang are clean?
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