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  #10721  
Old 12-25-12, 22:21
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Froome19 Froome19 is offline
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Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
2. This dodgy doctor then get's the GT assets under his wings.
Great post.

Not being facetious or anything but how do you know that they were taken "under his wing"?

And Hog though we try to find ways out of it I believe most of the Sky fans have admitted to most of what was said in that post, previously. Just to us it does not amount to the same definitive levels of proof which it does to you.
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  #10722  
Old 12-25-12, 22:27
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Originally Posted by Fearless Greg Lemond View Post
Indeed, it could be believable, for top class born freaks of nature like Fignon, Hinault, LeMond of course. Not some drunk pot smoking track 4k specialist or an alien chicken lookalike.
Seriously?

The levels of training they do on the track, though not totally comparable to those to win the Tour, are in terms of dedication, hours and attention to detail greater than close to any other discipline I am aware of.

And for a rider to be capable of winning on the track at the Olympics and then the Tour (however he has managed to achieve it) certainly labels him a freak of nature in my book.

Likewise what does Froome's appearance on the bike have anything got to do with anything?
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  #10723  
Old 12-25-12, 22:36
biopass biopass is offline
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Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
To sum it up, nothing has changed.

There is only confirmation of known facts. It's distressing that some people still try to handwave the Leinders thing.

Let's be very clear here.

Leinders is a doctor who managed his riders to win 2 Vuelta's (1 after the latest Heras decision), a Giro and almost won a TdF. That's nothing to sneeze at. There aren't many doctors who had the honor to have riders under his wing who win a GT every two years. Leinders might not be Ferrari, but he's obviously pretty good...

If we look at MR we know he was dirty as can be. If we look at DM we would be extremely naive to think he's clean. Considering Geert was the head medic (so he got all medical files) and was part of the management team of Rabo we already knew he was aware of the shehanigans of MR (and probably of DM). That's without looking at the Michael Rasmussen court papers (yes, years before he was hired)... The LL affidavit can't be a surprise. It's inconceivable that a team in this day and age let their stars dope on their own. It's to risky. And if anything Rabo was a team with strong management presence.

Now we go into the hiring. Geert is no virologist, nor did he do any paper on heat strokes. Also, it seems a bit weird to think he would be able to screen all the hangers on in a team to avoid incidents like the Txerra death. Let's be honest... if the goal was exhortion/heat/disease they should and could have picked up an ex-army doctor. AFAIK a rider is just a human being like anyone else, so there is no pressing need to pick leinders. In fact, for the stated reasons Leinders is the wrong choice.

And this is once again one of those areas where all the duplicity comes to light. DB has been spinning and lieing. And the really sad part is that lieing about doctors can only have so many motivators. And in cycling that motivator is always the same thing.

Now we can turn the spotlight to JRanton who pointed out that not only did the hiring of Leinders coincide with the breakthrough of Sky as GT team, but also pointed out that indeed Leinders has been the designated doctor for the core team in the build-up.

1. Leinders was hired when they knew about his past as doctor of dodgy GT winners. There is no way this can be denied.
2. This dodgy doctor then get's the GT assets under his wings.
3. These assets start to perform like they haven't done before.

And this is just one of the cornerstones of why Sky needs to be turned inside out. Leinders isn't the first Dodgy staff member (hello Yates!). Rogers (mr. Freiburg, who suddenly has left the team) cheering he never had better numbers. A Wiggins who has foresworn all his previous heartfelt declarations. The list goes on...

And make no mistake, this is no wild speculation, these are facts. Everything can be traced to court orders, affidavits, interviews, palmares.

Those who are critical of Sky base it on undeniable facts that need to be explained. And sadly it gets harder to believe there will be a "clean" explanation. Already with Leinders it seems impossible that Sky is anything other than secretive and beyond any reasonable doubt untruthful about it from the start.
You forgot the swinning coach who told to be at minimum 90% at their top condition. And that I believe is true. I've been there myself when I was doing Martial Arts 5 days a week. Never felt so good pshysically once you get used to train like a mad man several times a week.
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  #10724  
Old 12-25-12, 22:38
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And yes I was drinking, partying and smoking for at least 6 hours every friday night in those years
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  #10725  
Old 12-26-12, 01:16
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Originally Posted by ferryman View Post
I didn't man, help me here, you are a heading for ban and I don;t want to impose it. Do you have evidence?
Apologies.

What I meant was if he did turn up to races we'd know about it. I wasn't trying to be smart.

It was on Cyclingnews own website;

Quote:
Although the doctor was not part of Sky's Tour de France staff, the team's principal, Dave Brailsford, informed the press that he would lead a full investigation into the hiring of Leinders and his alleged links to doping.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lein...-investigation

You'll find similar on Sky's own website for other races. He was used in a sattalite consultive type role.

Similar to say Ferrari or Fuentes*. They no longer appeared at races when it became unfashionable for doping Doctors to appear with a team or riders at races

---

* this no way implies Lienders doped Sky riders whilst at Sky. Just that he had in the past and didn't turn up to Sky's races similar to Ferrari and Fuentes.
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  #10726  
Old 12-26-12, 05:32
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And for a rider to be capable of winning on the track at the Olympics and then the Tour (however he has managed to achieve it) certainly labels him a freak of nature in my book
some on this forum, not unreasonably, argued the opposite ever since the 2009 'almost podium'. i was not among those...in fact, i can recall my own 3 yo posts where i did not excluded the transformation. at the least, i argued an elite pursuit specialist was likelier to become a gt asset than a sprinter, even a road sprinter.

that wiggins has got a world class engine capable of maintaining 600+ watts for several minutes at the top of his pursuit days, i have never doubted. does it make him a freak ? on the track, yes. but when a cross is made into a gt land, where freakish RECOVERY as opposed to freakish POWER at VO2 peak rules the roost, things get more complicated.

actually, this is only my second post ever (i can recall) where i expressed an opinion on suspicions against wiggins. the first post was my skeptical assessment of his ability to maintain top form for so very long after winning the tour. and that's where i remain to date, lienders or not.
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  #10727  
Old 12-26-12, 06:29
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Alphabet Alphabet is offline
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Surely no one really thinks that Brailsford hired Leinders without prior knowledge of his past?
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  #10728  
Old 12-26-12, 08:02
Franklin Franklin is offline
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Originally Posted by Froome19 View Post
Great post.

Not being facetious or anything but how do you know that they were taken "under his wing"?
The list of JRanton shows that indeed Leinders was taking care of the A-riders.

But my use of "under his wing" is probably the wrong expression, should have said "in his care". A consequence of trying to hard to write correct english. I'll edit it
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  #10729  
Old 12-26-12, 08:05
Joachim Joachim is offline
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'Handwaving' doesn't have a figurative meaning in English, either. It just means waving one's hand
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  #10730  
Old 12-26-12, 08:08
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Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
'Handwaving' doesn't have a figurative meaning in English, either. It just means waving one's hand
For an ESL, perhaps this may appear true. But most native speakers will know exactly what it entails. A simple google search will reveal the truth of this.
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