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  #10741  
Old 12-26-12, 10:24
Franklin Franklin is offline
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Originally Posted by MatParker117 View Post
Sky only has three employees the rest are contractors and Leinders was interviewed by Steve Peters prior to signing his deal.
Considering the importance of the health of the assets, their shape and the risk for scandals, it is absolutely inconceivable that a team like Sky does not try to control every aspect of the medical state of their riders.

Even without Steven de Jongh, Sky will have done an extensive background check on their medical staff. Any other notion is preposterous. So even if Steve Peters did the interview, Leinders has undoubtedly been extensively discussed by the management team and was a conscious choice.
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  #10742  
Old 12-26-12, 10:47
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Possibly, possibly not.

Absolutely definitely if he was brought on to dope riders, or help them dope. If this was the case it seems strange that a team playing such high-stakes on being clean would have brought in an already tainted doctor, who carried such a risk. Also, even stranger that they would have maintained him for so long. My understanding is that teams and riders are very cagey about illicit activities. It isn't a foregone conclusion that Brailsford knew, or considered rumours to be important. He does now.

Never discount c0*k-ups before leaping at conspiracies.
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  #10743  
Old 12-26-12, 10:53
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Possibly, possibly not.

Absolutely definitely if he was brought on to dope riders, or help them dope. If this was the case it seems strange that a team playing such high-stakes on being clean would have brought in an already tainted doctor, who carried such a risk. Also, even stranger that they would have maintained him for so long. My understanding is that teams and riders are very cagey about illicit activities. It isn't a foregone conclusion that Brailsford knew, or considered rumours to be important. He does now.

Never discount c0*k-ups before leaping at conspiracies.
how lovely this post shows you've run out of arguments.
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  #10744  
Old 12-26-12, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Wiggo Warrior View Post
JRanton's list earlier in the thread has links to three race guides on Sky's own website in the early part of the 2012 season where Sky was successful in their goals and where the team doctor of record was Geert Leinders.

This was indirectly alluded to in Franklin's post which you directly quoted and then added your disputed observation.
He was at those races? I think we'll need a link for that.

As my link proves he wasn't at the Tour de France 2012 which I'm not sure if you know is a fairly big race on the ProTour.

Besides what's the point? Are you trying to prove me wrong or that Lienders is the virtue of clean cycling?

This is not about me.
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  #10745  
Old 12-26-12, 11:03
Wiggo Warrior Wiggo Warrior is offline
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He was at those races? I think we'll need a link for that.

As my link proves he wasn't at the Tour de France 2012 which I'm not sure if you know is a fairly big race on the ProTour.

Besides what's the point? Are you trying to prove me wrong or that Lienders is the virtue of clean cycling?

This is not about me.
Since Sky list the doctors on their website we know exactly which races he attended (Gent-Wevelgem was another, link below).

I am not trying to make any points about Leinders other than he was listed as attending races, whether relevant to the Tour build up or not.

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,272...615667,00.html
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  #10746  
Old 12-26-12, 11:05
Franklin Franklin is offline
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
It isn't a foregone conclusion that Brailsford knew, or considered rumours to be important. He does now.

Never discount c0*k-ups before leaping at conspiracies.
Dave Brailsford got arrested alongside David Millar (and no he wasn't actively involved)... if anyone knows the stakes it's Dave Brailsford.

Are you seriously implying Sky did not do a full background check on one of those who takes care of their key-assets? It's like saying Mac Laren sources it's aerodynamics from the first chop shop they find in the phonebook.

Oh and an example of handwaving: Those: "rumours" were part of a court decision.

Last edited by Franklin; 12-26-12 at 11:09.
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  #10747  
Old 12-26-12, 11:16
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Originally Posted by Wiggo Warrior View Post
Since Sky list the doctors on their website we know exactly which races he attended (Gent-Wevelgem was another, link below).

I am not trying to make any points about Leinders other than he was listed as attending races, whether relevant to the Tour build up or not.

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,272...615667,00.html
I'm not following. Just says he was the Doctor. Was he there or not? Can't see any verification of such.

Besides doesn't really matter. Wasn't at the Tour or the Vuelta but working behind the scenes as I early stated.

Sorry. Not buying it.
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  #10748  
Old 12-26-12, 11:27
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Possibly, possibly not.

Absolutely definitely if he was brought on to dope riders, or help them dope. If this was the case it seems strange that a team playing such high-stakes on being clean would have brought in an already tainted doctor, who carried such a risk. Also, even stranger that they would have maintained him for so long. My understanding is that teams and riders are very cagey about illicit activities. It isn't a foregone conclusion that Brailsford knew, or considered rumours to be important. He does now.

Never discount c0*k-ups before leaping at conspiracies.
Was overlooking Freiburg and Ferrari when hiring Mick Rogers a similar c*ck-up? Or overlooking Yates' and de Jongh's histories? That's an awful lot of oversight for a team that prides itself on attention to detail.
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  #10749  
Old 12-26-12, 11:34
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Was overlooking Freiburg and Ferrari when hiring Mick Rogers a similar c*ck-up? Or overlooking Yates' and de Jongh's histories? That's an awful lot of oversight for a team that prides itself on attention to detail.
I am curious which detail they overlooked when their riders had to pull out of the Vuelta with a viral infection.

Was it a cyclist-specific infection that their (non-cycling) doctor at the time had never seen?

It was in the first week of the Vuelta, so not like something you'd only encounter after 3000 km and 3 weeks of top level racing.

They had managed to complete 2 GTs by the time they hit the Vuelta: the Giro and the Tour de France. And the riders themselves had countless other GT experiences between them.
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  #10750  
Old 12-26-12, 12:31
Wiggo Warrior Wiggo Warrior is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
I am curious which detail they overlooked when their riders had to pull out of the Vuelta with a viral infection.

Was it a cyclist-specific infection that their (non-cycling) doctor at the time had never seen?

It was in the first week of the Vuelta, so not like something you'd only encounter after 3000 km and 3 weeks of top level racing.

They had managed to complete 2 GTs by the time they hit the Vuelta: the Giro and the Tour de France. And the riders themselves had countless other GT experiences between them.
I haven't found anything definitive about the viral infection, but this may be where the hand shaking ban during races and training came from as mentioned by many members of the press this year and last.

I imagine most sport doctors are more used to treating injuries rather than serious viral infections. In football a sufferer of such a virus would be unlikely to be allowed anywhere near another member of the team but that is easier to achieve when you are talking a 90 minute game not a three week race in another country.

Maybe they should have employed Test cricket experienced doctors instead.
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