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Old 12-26-12, 22:51
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Ultimately the Republicans are screwed whatever happens. I remember Fareed Zakaria saying in September that this is the election both parties need to win as the economy has already began making a turnaround.
According to Paul Ryan, the fact that the voters sent much of the same GOP members back to the House means that they have an agenda. So the "winner" is a matter of spin, no?

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The cliff is the wet dream of the admin. Raise taxes on everybody only so they can lower them to the "working" class later.
But isn't that part of the dream the Tea Party, I mean Republicans in the House are hoping for too in a sense? Go over the cliff so they don't have to break their pledge on raising taxes. Then "cut" from the new tax increases to say they did it to help tax payers and stimulate the economy?

Hurt the most (meaning, fastest) are going to be the working poor, those on Social Security as a sole income, and the unemployed in states where the economy still hasn't recovered. New Jersey for example will get the double whammy with high unemployment, and people still dealing with the effects of Sandy.
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Old 12-26-12, 23:34
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Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
According to Paul Ryan, the fact that the voters sent much of the same GOP members back to the House means that they have an agenda. So the "winner" is a matter of spin, no?


But isn't that part of the dream the Tea Party, I mean Republicans in the House are hoping for too in a sense? Go over the cliff so they don't have to break their pledge on raising taxes. Then "cut" from the new tax increases to say they did it to help tax payers and stimulate the economy?

Hurt the most (meaning, fastest) are going to be the working poor, those on Social Security as a sole income, and the unemployed in states where the economy still hasn't recovered. New Jersey for example will get the double whammy with high unemployment, and people still dealing with the effects of Sandy.
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But isn't that part of the dream the Tea Party, I mean Republicans in the House are hoping for too in a sense? Go over the cliff so they don't have to break their pledge on raising taxes. Then "cut" from the new tax increases to say they did it to help tax payers and stimulate the economy?
I don't think so, at least not to the same degree. The only thing that will pass assuming we go over the cliff is the restoration of rates for those making less than $250k. So the top two brackets are going to move up no matter what. That's a loser for the tea party types.

Also, 'loop-holes' are going to get closed, so the effective tax rates on those on the higher end is going to go way up. Not what the TP is looking for.

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Hurt the most (meaning, fastest) are going to be the working poor, those on Social Security as a sole income, and the unemployed in states where the economy still hasn't recovered. New Jersey for example will get the double whammy with high unemployment, and people still dealing with the effects of Sandy.
Again, I don't think so. These are the newly cultivated Obama voters and they aren't going to be asked to pay anything additional, unless they smoke cigarettes. Even if there's no deal when taxes get sorted out early next year it will be made retroactive to Jan 1.
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Last edited by Scott SoCal; 12-26-12 at 23:37.
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Old 12-27-12, 02:32
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If Republican Mormon Senators cannot keep themselves from becoming drunken threats on the road then what chance is there for the rest of us? Time to ban alcohol. The temptation is too great. The carnage is too much. Ban. Ban. Ban.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...d-for-dui?lite

I did get a laugh that the article took the space to tell people how to pronunce Crapo's name. I'm not sure how many people will take the article's advise, though.
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Old 12-27-12, 02:41
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I don't think so, at least not to the same degree. The only thing that will pass assuming we go over the cliff is the restoration of rates for those making less than $250k.
Again, they will be voting for tax cuts at that point, which doesn't. Real their blood pledge to Norquist. On a practical level, it would be more sense to negotiate from "Plan B." at least if I were a GOP rep I'd look from there.
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Again, I don't think so. These are the newly cultivated Obama voters and they aren't going to be asked to pay anything additional, unless they smoke cigarettes. Even if there's no deal when taxes get sorted out early next year it will be made retroactive to Jan 1.
And the 2 million people unemployed? Honest question here, do you think a deal, say signed on Jan 30, would be retroactive then? I believe you and I agree on this issue. States like ND don't need a federal extension, at all, but states like NJ do.
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Old 12-27-12, 03:20
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Just curious, what do you think the total public debt will be by the end of the responsible party's current term? What's the over/under on 20 Trillion?
Dunno. What do you think it would've been now if you high information voters hadn't twice voted for Bush?

Last edited by VeloCity; 12-27-12 at 03:23.
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Old 12-27-12, 04:35
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Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
Again, they will be voting for tax cuts at that point, which doesn't. Real their blood pledge to Norquist. On a practical level, it would be more sense to negotiate from "Plan B." at least if I were a GOP rep I'd look from there.

And the 2 million people unemployed? Honest question here, do you think a deal, say signed on Jan 30, would be retroactive then? I believe you and I agree on this issue. States like ND don't need a federal extension, at all, but states like NJ do.
Why do the unemployed care if there's a deal? It won't effect them either way... Certainly in he short term.

I think any deal anytime in the first quarter would go retro to Jan 1, my opinion.
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Old 12-27-12, 04:41
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Dunno. What do you think it would've been now if you high information voters hadn't twice voted for Bush?
Gore twice, or does Kerry get in there too?

Given the spending proclivities of D's.... I'd guess between 20 and 22 trillion now. Maybe higher, depending on when universal healthcare would have been enacted.
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Old 12-27-12, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
Again, they will be voting for tax cuts at that point, which doesn't. Real their blood pledge to Norquist. On a practical level, it would be more sense to negotiate from "Plan B." at least if I were a GOP rep I'd look from there.

And the 2 million people unemployed? Honest question here, do you think a deal, say signed on Jan 30, would be retroactive then? I believe you and I agree on this issue. States like ND don't need a federal extension, at all, but states like NJ do.
Alpe, it's been my understanding that since 2008 at least all unemployment extension deals pushed through congress have been paid retroactive to whatever day they last cut-off.
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Old 12-27-12, 16:46
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I did not realize that. Just hearing that 2m people would be cut off if no deal is made.

Reading news bites today I believe we're either going to get a kick the can deal on the Cliff, suspending everything until about April, or we'll just go over and they'll spin it saying a deal or stop gap deal is imminent, and put some bandages on it.

Little to no faith in Congress to do anything sensible, either party.
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Old 12-27-12, 17:41
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I did not realize that. Just hearing that 2m people would be cut off if no deal is made.

Reading news bites today I believe we're either going to get a kick the can deal on the Cliff, suspending everything until about April, or we'll just go over and they'll spin it saying a deal or stop gap deal is imminent, and put some bandages on it.

Little to no faith in Congress to do anything sensible, either party.
This.

There is nobody serious in DC. All games all the time.
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