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  #371  
Old 12-27-12, 04:52
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CobbleStoner CobbleStoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookster15 View Post
Australia

1 Cadel Evans
2 Phil Anderson

3 Stuart O'Grady
4 Sir Hubert Opperman
5 Danny Clark
6 Simon Gerrans
7 Graeme Gilmore
8 Alan Peiper
9 Bradley McGee
10 Robbie McEwen

Phil was superb, a true ambassador and pioneer for Aussie and Anglo cycling, but you can't beat 1 TDF and 1 WT. For this reason Cadel must go to #1.
Phil Anderson should be on the top of that list, he never cried on a bike, and he did more for Aussie cycling, a class act on and of the bike, no temper tantrums or throwing water bottles at people.

here is my list:
1. Greg LeMond
2. John Howard
3. Andy Hampsten
4. Alexi Grewal
5. Jonathon Boyer
6. Davis Phinney
7. Thurlow Rodgers
8. Mark Whitehead
9. Deborah Schumway
10. Lance Armstrong (relegated to the back, but still an amazing rider that out trained everybody))
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long live Zesdaagse!
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  #372  
Old 12-27-12, 13:07
FF'Wilco FF'Wilco is offline
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Poland

1 Jean Stablinski
2 Jean Graczyk
3 Ryszard Szurkowski
4 Lech Piasecki
5 Édouard Klapinski
6 Michal Kwiatkowski
7 Czeslaw Lang
8 César Marcellak
9 Jaroslav Marycz
10 Mariusz Gil
Stablinski, Graczyk or Klabiński were French with Polish origins.

Here's my list:

1. Ryszard Szurkowski - triple world champion amateurs (road race & team time trial 1973, team time trial 1975), twice silver in Olympics (team time trial 1972, 1976)

2. Czesław Lang - silver in Olympics (road race 1980), twice bronze in WC amateurs (team time trial 1977, 1979), Giro stage winner (team time trial)

3. Stanisław Szozda - silver in WC amateurs (1973), world champion amateurs (team time trial 1973, 1975), twice bronze in WC amateurs (team time trial 1971, 1977), twice silver in Olympics (team time trial 1972, 1976)

4. Lech Piasecki - world champion amateurs (road race 1985), five stage wins in Giro, two days in Yellows Jersey

5. Tadeusz Mytnik - world champion amateurs (time time trial 1973, 1975), silver in Olympics (team time trial 1976), bronze WC amateurs (team time trial 1977)

6. Joachim Halupczok - world champion amateurs (road race 1989), silver in world championships (team time trial 1989), silver in Olympics (team time trial 1988)

7. Zenon Jaskuła - 3rd in Tour de France 1993 with stage win, silver in Olympics (team time trial 1988), silver in WC amateurs (team time trial 1989)

8. Mieczysław Nowicki - world champion amateurs (team time trial 1975), silver in Olympics (team time trial 1976), bronze in Olympics (road race 1976), bronze in WC amateurs (team time trial 1977)

9. Zbigniew Spruch - silver in WC (road race 2001), 3rd in Mediolan San Remo (1999), 2nd Gent Wevelgem (1999), 3rd in Paris Tours (1994)

10. Piotr Wadecki - 7th in Olympics (road race 2000), 2nd Tour de Suisee (2002), stage win and mountain jersey in Paris Nice (2001)
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  #373  
Old 12-27-12, 16:25
avanti avanti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
...........................

Great Britain

1 Robert Millar
2 Tom Simpson
3 Barry Hoban
4 Bradley Wiggins
5 Max Sciandri
6 Hugh Porter
7 Michael Wright
8 Mark Cavendish …
9 Brian Robinson
10 Leslie West

...............................
A honorable mention is Ray Booty who was the first cyclist to break the four hour mark for the 100-mile TT. He also won many other TTs in the UK. As I recall he rode a fixed gear bike with a 3-speed sturmey archer type ASW hub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Booty
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  #374  
Old 12-27-12, 18:38
Echoes Echoes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
Needs Jan Veselý imo.
Didn't know him. Great Eastern champion apparently. What really happened in 1955?

Shame he couldn't mix it up with Westerners.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elapid
It's not only about the number of wins. Agree with Cookster and proff, hard to look past the first Australian winner of both the TdF and WC. While there may have been other pioneers, Phil Anderson is generally recognized as the pioneer and inspiration for most of the current and recently retired Australian riders so I definitely think you are selling him short in your assessment.
1) You can't build up a palmares on two races only. A great palmarès needs quality AND quantity. Anderson has both. Evans is a great rider but Anderson raced ALL classics and I can't look past it. I've seen fragments of the Tour of Flanders 1988. He didn't win but he was definitely the best man in the race, he attacked multiple times. Terrific rider.

2) I saw an interview with Phil in which he said himself that there already were great Aussie riders before him. False modesty? Well if you consider that Sir Hubert Opperman already won Paris-Brest-Paris in 1931, I guess he must be right. Snowy Munro toptened Milan-Sanremo in 1912, if I'm not mistaken.
Why sell him short? All the Aussies who raced before him, don't they count?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FF'Wilco
Stablinski, Graczyk or Klabiński were French with Polish origins.
So they're Polish, aren't they? The two former were born Polish and turned French as adults, just like Marcellak. As far as I know, Klabinski never applied for French citizenship.

By the way, I definitely rate Spruch higher than Jaskula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti
A honorable mention is Ray Booty who was the first cyclist to break the four hour mark for the 100-mile TT. He also won many other TTs in the UK. As I recall he rode a fixed gear bike with a 3-speed sturmey archer type ASW hub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Booty
Good racer apparently. But never seems to have raced on the continent.

By the way, I realize I forgot Sean Yates in my list. So perhaps #5 or so.
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  #375  
Old 12-27-12, 18:50
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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My British list:

1 Mark Cavendish has won more races than any other British rider, inc the second to win WC.

2 Tom Simpson the first to win the WC, and had his career had not been cut short by rampant drug use would be number won. The most naturally talented British rider of all time

3 Bradley Wiggins
4 Robert Millar
5 Barry Hoban
6 Chris Boardman
7 Graeme Obree
8 Brian Robinson
9 Micheal Wright
10 George Mills

Cav simply has to be number 1, for his plamares, his likely future palmares and the fact he is already regarded by many as the finest road sprinter of all time.

Obree counts, right? Granted his road career was rather short
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  #376  
Old 12-27-12, 19:44
kurtinsc kurtinsc is offline
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My list (I'm going to use official results... that means Lance gets his 1996 and prior results, Hincappie loses a two year stretch, etc).

1. Greg Lemond - 3 TDF wins, 5 TDF stage wins, 2 WC's, 1 D-L.
2. Andy Hampstein - 1 Giro win, 1 Giro mountain win, 3 Giro stages, 1 TDF stage, 2 TDS, 1 Romandie.
3. Tyler Hamilton - 1 TDF stage, LBL, 1 Giro stage, 2nd in Giro, 2 Romandie, 1 D-L, 1 USC.
4. Bobby Julich - 1 TDF stage, 3rd in TDF. 1 Giro stage. 1 P-N. Olympic Bronze.
5. Levi Leipheimer - 1 TDF stage. 2nd in Vuelta. 2 vuelta stages. 1 USC. 1 USC-TT.
6. Lance Armstrong - 2 TDF stages, 1 WC, 1 USC.
7. Tyler Farrar - 2 TDF stages, 3 Giro stages, 3 Vuelta stages.
8. George Hincappie - 1 TDF stage. 3 USC's. 1 GW.
9. Davis Phinney - 2 TDF stages, 2nd in points at a TDF, 1 USC.
10. Fred Rodriguez - 1 Giro stage. 2nd in MSR. 3 USC's.


First out. Dave Zabriskie - 1 TDF stage. 1 Giro stage. 5 USC-TT's.


Kind of a sad list... especially to see how high guys who've had years taken out of their palmares still rank. Grewal had a gold medal... but that was really it. Taylor Phinney has a Giro stage, a USC-TT and a 2nd in the Worlds ITT... but he's got a ways to go with Zabriskie having 5 USC-TT's. Van Garderen has shown promise but has to win some bigger races. Horner doesn't have much beyond a single Basque Country win. Talansky's Vuelta performance is promising, but he needs to win some bigger races too.
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  #377  
Old 12-27-12, 19:50
Dazed and Confused Dazed and Confused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtinsc View Post
My list (I'm going to use official results... that means Lance gets his 1996 and prior results, Hincappie loses a two year stretch, etc).

1. Greg Lemond - 3 TDF wins, 5 TDF stage wins, 2 WC's, 1 D-L.
2. Andy Hampstein - 1 Giro win, 1 Giro mountain win, 3 Giro stages, 1 TDF stage, 2 TDS, 1 Romandie.
3. Tyler Hamilton - 1 TDF stage, LBL, 1 Giro stage, 2nd in Giro, 2 Romandie, 1 D-L, 1 USC.
4. Bobby Julich - 1 TDF stage, 3rd in TDF. 1 Giro stage. 1 P-N. Olympic Bronze.
5. Levi Leipheimer - 1 TDF stage. 2nd in Vuelta. 2 vuelta stages. 1 USC. 1 USC-TT.
6. Lance Armstrong - 2 TDF stages, 1 WC, 1 USC.
7. Tyler Farrar - 2 TDF stages, 3 Giro stages, 3 Vuelta stages.
8. George Hincappie - 1 TDF stage. 3 USC's. 1 GW.
9. Davis Phinney - 2 TDF stages, 2nd in points at a TDF, 1 USC.
10. Fred Rodriguez - 1 Giro stage. 2nd in MSR. 3 USC's.


First out. Dave Zabriskie - 1 TDF stage. 1 Giro stage. 5 USC-TT's.


Kind of a sad list... especially to see how high guys who've had years taken out of their palmares still rank. Grewal had a gold medal... but that was really it. Taylor Phinney has a Giro stage, a USC-TT and a 2nd in the Worlds ITT... but he's got a ways to go with Zabriskie having 5 USC-TT's. Van Garderen has shown promise but has to win some bigger races. Horner doesn't have much beyond a single Basque Country win. Talansky's Vuelta performance is promising, but he needs to win some bigger races too.
Taylor Phinney could overtake some of the lower hanging guys in the next couple of years.
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  #378  
Old 12-27-12, 19:54
kurtinsc kurtinsc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazed and Confused View Post
Taylor Phinney could overtake some of the lower hanging guys in the next couple of years.
Depends. If he wins a world championship or a few GT stages time-trialing... yeah he could climb up. But if he does what Hincappie always did in the cobbled races (place high but never win), he'll have trouble climbing. He's certainly not going to get any major GC results.

I think Talansky and Van Garderen have a better shot at moving up. It's possible to envision them winning some Romandie/Basque/D-L/Suisse type races and possibly getting a podium at a GT... that would put them way up the list pretty quick.
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  #379  
Old 12-27-12, 19:59
Dazed and Confused Dazed and Confused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtinsc View Post
Depends. If he wins a world championship or a few GT stages time-trialing... yeah he could climb up. But if he does what Hincappie always did in the cobbled races (place high but never win), he'll have trouble climbing. He's certainly not going to get any major GC results.

I think Talansky and Van Garderen have a better shot at moving up. It's possible to envision them winning some Romandie/Basque/D-L/Suisse type races and possibly getting a podium at a GT... that would put them way up the list pretty quick.
there's uncertainty and major competition, but such a major TT engine (with a decent sprint) is bound to get a couple of big results.
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  #380  
Old 12-27-12, 20:15
kurtinsc kurtinsc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazed and Confused View Post
there's uncertainty and major competition, but such a major TT engine (with a decent sprint) is bound to get a couple of big results.
The problem is his complete lack of climbing. While he has a decent sprint... it's not enough to beat the top guys. It's the kind that will get him in the 4-10 range against a good lineup of sprinters. And since he climbs so poorly, any route that bleeds off the sprinters who can't climb well will also likely take him out too.

He'll get some ITT results... and he might win some sprints in lesser events. Perhaps he'll be able to handle cobbled races without many hills and do something there. But that's a very limited set of major races that he'll contend in. The WC ITT. Perhaps P-N or G-W one day. GT time trials. And that's about it. Flanders is too hilly for him. Important mass sprints are places he can possibly place but likely not win.

He needs to be able to get up some tougher hills to have a realistic shot of doing more then that.
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