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The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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  #10841  
Old 12-28-12, 10:55
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
The one thing Brailsford hates is 'drama' - see the Pendleton fiasco for that - indeed, his aversion to the kind of mountain attacks many of us fans enjoy is a sign of that too - he has an endless bucket of money, of course he's going to use it to avoid 'blow-ups' in the press. He'd be mad not to, frankly!
There were a lot of those 'mountain attacks we all enjoy' in the full on EPO era, weren't there. Can't think why. Curiously, Wiggins can't launch those attacks, he has to let them go and then grind his way up at a consistent pace, staying out of the red and limiting his losses. For this, he is condemned as having no panache and being boring and yet apparently this is also the style of the archetypal doper.

You couldn't make it up if you tried

Last edited by Joachim; 12-28-12 at 12:16.
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  #10842  
Old 12-28-12, 13:25
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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There were a lot of those 'mountain attacks we all enjoy' in the full on EPO era, weren't there. Can't think why. Curiously, Wiggins can't launch those attacks, he has to let them go and then grind his way up at a consistent pace, staying out of the red and limiting his losses. For this, he is condemned as having no panache and being boring and yet apparently this is also the style of the archetypal doper.

You couldn't make it up if you tried
I'd say this is the problem with comparing everything with Armstrong - he did it all.

Boring, relentless team ploughing uphill to fend off attacks (very wiggins)- check
Time trial domination (very wiggins) - check
Speaks english (very wiggins) - check

yet

Dominated Le Tour for nearly a decade (wiggo's not even close) - check
Zipping up mountains, altering acceleration, attacking at the drop of a hat when the mood/necessity took him (absolutely not wiggins) - check

and finally

functioning sociopath (jury's out on wiggo!!) - check

No-one wants to see a re-run of that b*stard, screwing the sport from behind. But "just like lance" is becoming the "godwin's law" of the forum - a comparison that is inevitable as the thread lengthens, univerally invoked, relevant or not. And it doesn't move the process, discussion, investigation on any further...
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  #10843  
Old 12-28-12, 13:32
Joachim Joachim is offline
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It is indeed. The problem with this forum is it is about doping, purely. Therefore it is most attractive to people who want to talk about doping, and naturally that revolves around accusations. In essence, it is self-referential, and it has already developed its own set of truisms that people accept unquestioningly.

Which is ironic, given that anyone who points out that paradigms are being built upon shakey assumptions is immediately labelled as unquestioning (or just labelled 'troll', 'fanboy', or whatever puerile epithet they can come up with to stop you from questioning their view).

Last edited by Joachim; 12-28-12 at 13:35.
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  #10844  
Old 12-28-12, 13:41
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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It is indeed. The problem with this forum is it is about doping, purely. Therefore it is most attractive to people who want to talk about doping, and naturally that revolves around accusations. In essence, it is self-referential, and it has already developed its own set of truisms that people accept unquestioningly.
That doesn't bother me so much. It's not like cycling doesn't deserve it

Quote:
Which is ironic, given that anyone who points out that paradigms are being built upon shakey assumptions is immediately labelled as unquestioning (or just labelled 'troll', 'fanboy', or whatever puerile epithet they can come up with to stop you from questioning their view).
I could live without this, and the sarcasm as the height of humour, but still, different strokes...
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  #10845  
Old 12-28-12, 14:01
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Parrulo Parrulo is offline
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oh the good old "only doped riders are able to attack on the mountains" argument. . .

is like saying "i like to act like some sort of cycling expert but actually i have no idea how cycling was like pre-1990"
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  #10846  
Old 12-28-12, 14:16
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Fearless Greg Lemond Fearless Greg Lemond is offline
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It is indeed. The problem with this forum is it is about doping, purely.
Wow, you didn't know the clinic was on dope?

We are the dopest guys on the internet!

Gewiss - Carrera - Festina - US Postal - Rabo - Sky. All the same stuff, seen it before. Since you have been watching cycling for 30 years you should be able to see the fraud.
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  #10847  
Old 12-28-12, 14:20
Joachim Joachim is offline
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I see you just edited your post, adding Gewiss and Carerra. Google-expert
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  #10848  
Old 12-28-12, 14:28
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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oh the good old "only doped riders are able to attack on the mountains" argument. . .

is like saying "i like to act like some sort of cycling expert but actually i have no idea how cycling was like pre-1990"
1. cycling pre-1990 was regularly doped - Coppi doped, Anquetil doped, mercx doped. Kelly and Roche doped. And none of those guys did it for their complexion -well, maybe coppi.

2. Many of the mountain attacks of the era were 'superhuman', both in power and frankly quantity.

3. don't assume what other posters know. you'll invariably make a fool of yourself (a lesson learned the hard way).
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  #10849  
Old 12-28-12, 14:35
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Fearless Greg Lemond Fearless Greg Lemond is offline
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I see you just edited your post, adding Gewiss and Carerra. Google-expert
What do you want me to add? Mapei? Ariostea? Once? Saunier Duval? PDM?

Just ask. My eyes have been open the last 30 years. Yours?

And that was not meant as an insult, to be sure.

Patriottism is so boring.
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  #10850  
Old 12-28-12, 14:43
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by Fearless Greg Lemond View Post
What do you want me to add?
Something of value would be nice. Certainly better than petty attempts at point-scoring.

Sorry, but don't bother responding to my posts anymore. I really can't be bothered with wasting time.
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