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View Poll Results: Which male rider will dominate in 2013?
Contador 53 46.90%
Wiggins 7 6.19%
Froome 11 9.73%
Gilbert 21 18.58%
Boonen 11 9.73%
Cancellara 26 23.01%
Rodriguez 4 3.54%
Sagan 54 47.79%
Valverde 8 7.08%
Other (specify) 13 11.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #71  
Old 12-30-12, 22:58
burning burning is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint--deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?
Hushovd's win at Gap was very impressive, It took quite a lot of strength and smarts to get into breakaway (Flecha attacked 16 times in that stage and couldn't get into correct move)
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  #72  
Old 12-30-12, 22:58
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint--deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?
Nail on the head. Stage hunting is a specialty, certainly in the Tour de France. Look at a guy like Devenyns, for instance. He tries and tries, but he can't get the damn win. Same goes for Hoogerland.

Whereas Luis Leon and Voeckler, if they make the breakaway they probably have a one in three chance of winning.
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  #73  
Old 12-30-12, 23:05
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
Nail on the head. Stage hunting is a specialty, certainly in the Tour de France. Look at a guy like Devenyns, for instance. He tries and tries, but he can't get the damn win. Same goes for Hoogerland.

Whereas Luis Leon and Voeckler, if they make the breakaway they probably have a one in three chance of winning.
That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #74  
Old 12-30-12, 23:08
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.
pure luck.
Apart from this statement, I have nothing to bring to the discusion
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  #75  
Old 12-30-12, 23:09
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.
Didn't you get the memo Pisti? Voeckler and Sanchez are lucky, random riders.
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  #76  
Old 12-30-12, 23:14
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Didn't you get the memo Pisti? Voeckler and Sanchez are lucky, random riders.
Yeah, just read Maltiv's post.

My post should be directed to him instead of theyoungest.

Anyway, I still think wins from a breakaway are less prestigious than winning from the favorites group, but that isn't to say that riders like Jens Voigt, Thomas De Gendt, Luis Leon Sanchez and Voeckler are bad. Not at all.

I think everyone can agree that Voeckler was the strongest at the Brabantse Pijl for example. These riders are strong rouleurs and often go in breakaways during stage races. Couple that with a lot of tactic prowess and you have a good combination.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #77  
Old 12-31-12, 09:26
maltiv maltiv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will10 View Post
You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint--deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?
Well, you once again miss my point. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that breakaway wins might be random, not that they always are...That's why you can get stage winners like Calzati. Or why Simon Gerrans won one of the hardest MTF's in the 08 TDF, despite going up said mountain at snail pace.

Not quite sure what you mean about the sprint-a-deux point, the breakaway consisted of 5 people and it ultimately came down to a sprint of, well, five.
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  #78  
Old 12-31-12, 09:30
maltiv maltiv is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
I think everyone can agree that Voeckler was the strongest at the Brabantse Pijl for example. These riders are strong rouleurs and often go in breakaways during stage races. Couple that with a lot of tactic prowess and you have a good combination.
Of course, staying away from a group that's chasing is something entirely different, I was merely referring to the situation in which a small breakaway is virtually given the victory by the peloton because they want a rest day. Staying away when the peloton is actually trying to catch you is the most prestigious victory one can get.
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  #79  
Old 12-31-12, 10:25
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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Saying that Luis Leon and Voeckler win from breakaways because they're simply the strongest misses the point as well. Look at Laurens ten Dam in the Tour, arguably among the best climbers in some of the breaks he was in, but often one of the first to get dropped. Breakaway riding is just a different ballgame, requiring different qualities.
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  #80  
Old 12-31-12, 15:51
Wigwan Wigwan is offline
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Originally Posted by maltiv View Post
It was still a decent win due to three factors: 1) The peloton was partly chasing, the breakaway could never chill completely. 2) It was a huge breakaway involving lots of good riders, e.g Chavanel and Mollema 3) He won by being the strongest rider in the breakaway, not by being lucky.

But of course, had he done that attack from the peloton and held of it would've been far more epic. Anyway, my point isn't that every breakaway win isn't prestigious, it's just that they're sometimes kinda random, which TT's are not. I doubt that most people consider Fedrigo's or Millar's victories from this year's TDF as particularly impressive.
Did you watch the stage? It's so difficult to be in the break when there is about 120 riders who wants to be part of it..
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