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  #11081  
Old 12-31-12, 17:01
sniper sniper is offline
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Then again, one has to wonder why Sky and the ASO got together so the team could present its riders' blood values. It is almost as if everyone wanted to know that the plan was on track.
this.
funny also to hear the Sky spokesman denying that any donations had been made. he wasn't even being asked about donations.

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Then there was McQuaid telling people he would not be able to attend Sky's victory party for the Tour win weeks before Wiggins won.
what a freudian slip that was.


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And now we know why the Tour routes have been neutered the since 2009. The presentation undoubtedly came with estimates for media revenue growth the ASO could expect if road cycling increased viewership in the UK. The ASO has been planning on a British winner for years.
another excellent point.

Last edited by sniper; 12-31-12 at 17:11.
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  #11082  
Old 12-31-12, 17:08
Joachim Joachim is offline
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To the second point, you're welcome to hold on to "unproven", but you should include Hamilton's allegations of a close/improper relationship between Armstrong and Hein Verbruggen.
That is the relationship I'm talking about. It's an allegation, though unproven as yet, that I believe. But the theory your are putting forward with regards to ASO is of an entirely different order.

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You're misrepresenting ASO's situation. Their event is running very low on credibility. They can hardly afford to have another dirty winner. What they need is to guarantee a "believeable" winner, and I think that's what they did with the british household name Wiggins. But yes there are stakes on eventual discovery also.
Eh? That is exactly what I am saying. The TdF is in a parlous state. ASO can barely afford another scandal. I think we agree on that. What they "need is to guarantee" no more scandals. They can't achieve that by scandal. That is a nonsensical notion.

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And finally, the 2012 Tour was just not an open race. At the time or with hindsight, Sky had it locked down - it's not a controversial view to take. It's just a matter of how it was done.
I think Sky did everything they could to lock it down, and it is for that reason that I think this will be Wiggins sole GT win. I don't think he'll be prepared to put himself through the mill again.
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  #11083  
Old 12-31-12, 17:31
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
And now we know why the Tour routes have been neutered the since 2009. The presentation undoubtedly came with estimates for media revenue growth the ASO could expect if road cycling increased viewership in the UK. The ASO has been planning on a British winner for years.

....and yet, the Tour is shown on free-to-view terrestrial Tv by ITV4, a very minor channel. They bought the rights 10 years ago for £1m. Viewing has increased by a third, but a third of not very much is even less.

If there is the great big fix that some are suggesting, you would expect a strategic renegotiation after the win.

That renegotiation came in January 2012, 7 months prior to the tour even taking place, and the rights were granted until 2015.

By contrast, the UK football premiership rights cost £3 billion.

In the Uk, cycling is nothing.

Last edited by Joachim; 12-31-12 at 17:36.
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  #11084  
Old 12-31-12, 17:31
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Wiggo did 480 watts at the olympics according to some. Not sure what Lance did though.
Had a search, couldn't find the OQ.
General reports and consensus on here has the figure at 430-450 watts.
A lot of technical debate, on several threads.
Watts/kilo tend to vary between sceptic and non-sceptic 6.4-6.0.
Low end is "believable", top end ain't.


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Originally Posted by King Of The Wolds View Post
Source? And was that touched 480 or averaged 480 for the hour?
From another thread Lemond able to produce 450-460 watts for 1 hour-fresh.
Talks about the '90s dopers churning out +500 watts.

http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
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  #11085  
Old 12-31-12, 17:35
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taiwan taiwan is offline
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Eh? That is exactly what I am saying. The TdF is in a parlous state. ASO can barely afford another scandal. I think we agree on that. What they "need is to guarantee" no more scandals. They can't achieve that by scandal. That is a nonsensical notion.
Scandal is the reaction to what ASO do, not their action. Not doing anything scandalous is only one way to avoid scandal.

What you're saying is that ASO would have no part in any manipulation of the event for fear of further scandal. What I'm saying is that precisely because there have been so many scandals already, the ASO would not be inclined to leave anything to chance and would be backing the same outcome as the UCI and Team Sky.

"However when a blog on Skysports let slip that the British team of Bradley Wiggins and Mark Cavendish had made a presentation to ASO ahead of this year’s Tour de France, it raised eyebrows – especially when the blog mentioned that part of the presentation was to ensure they ‘won't get any nasty surprises’."
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Last edited by taiwan; 12-31-12 at 17:37.
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  #11086  
Old 12-31-12, 17:40
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One of the more amazing things about this thing is the sheer chutzpah it took for Brailsford to sell the people this clean cycling scam. From 2009, before the team was even formed, he was telling the ASO he planned to win the TdF. At that time anyone with the barest knowledge of cycling knew that blood vector doping had been endemic for almost two decades and there had not been a clean Tour winner for nearly twenty years. There is no possible way that Brailsford thought his team could win the Tour with a clean winner. Nobody in Brailsford's position can be that naive. I do not see how the conclusion can be escaped that the plan from the beginning was to dope their way to a win. To run a huge PR campaign proclaiming the team's cleanliness is the type of chutzpah it took for Armstrong to give his "believe in miracles" speech in 2005. Well, chutzpah or cynicism.
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Last edited by BroDeal; 12-31-12 at 17:59.
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  #11087  
Old 12-31-12, 17:41
MatParker117 MatParker117 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Had a search, couldn't find the OQ.
General reports and consensus on here has the figure at 430-450 watts.
A lot of technical debate, on several threads.
Watts/kilo tend to vary between sceptic and non-sceptic 6.4-6.0.
Low end is "believable", top end ain't.




From another thread Lemond able to produce 450-460 watts for 1 hour-fresh.
Talks about the '90s dopers churning out +500 watts.

http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/lemond.html
Shane Sutton stated on a Sky documentary that during Paris-Nice this year that Wiggins averaged 440 watts for about 30 minutes.
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  #11088  
Old 12-31-12, 17:42
Joachim Joachim is offline
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Originally Posted by taiwan View Post
What you're saying is that ASO would have no part in any manipulation of the event for fear of further scandal. What I'm saying is that precisely because there have been so many scandals already, the ASO would not be inclined to leave anything to chance and would be backing the same outcome as the UCI and Team Sky.
No that is not what I am saying. I think the ASO may have provided a parcours suited to Wiggins. That is manipulating the event.

It is another thing entirely to say that they are somehow giving Sky impunity to dope to the max, in collusion with the UCI as is being suggested here.

What on earth makes people think the ASO and the UCI have a close, trusting relationship?

Last edited by Joachim; 12-31-12 at 17:58.
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  #11089  
Old 12-31-12, 17:46
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Originally Posted by taiwan View Post
Scandal is the reaction to what ASO do, not their action. Not doing anything scandalous is only one way to avoid scandal.

What you're saying is that ASO would have no part in any manipulation of the event for fear of further scandal. What I'm saying is that precisely because there have been so many scandals already, the ASO would not be inclined to leave anything to chance and would be backing the same outcome as the UCI and Team Sky.
The ASO started down that path when it kicked Clerc out and put Prudhomme in. L'Equipe was ordered not to do any more doping investigations. It was only to be reactive to doping stories. The ASO made nice with the ASO, meaning the AFLD would not do the sort of testing that led to a quarter of the stage winners in 2008 testing positive. The ASO met with Armstrong and paved the way for his return, so the precedent of turning a blind eye to a specific doper had already been set.
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  #11090  
Old 12-31-12, 17:51
sniper sniper is offline
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
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What on earth makes people think the ASO have a close, trusting relationship?
read up a bit on the hate-love history between ASO and UCI/Armstrong and you'll be able to understand better what is meant with "avoiding nasty surprises".
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cler...responsibility
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