For the "pedaling technique doesn't matter crowd" - Page 78 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Form & Fitness > General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #771  
Old 01-02-13, 00:01
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,276
Default

It's quite simple Noel (and Frank this applies to you as well).

WE DON"T BELIEVE YOU!
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #772  
Old 01-02-13, 01:25
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
It's quite simple Noel (and Frank this applies to you as well).

WE DON"T BELIEVE YOU!


Thanks, I take that as a compliment, if it's unbelievable it must be good.
  #773  
Old 01-02-13, 13:00
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Simmons/RST View Post
Even if that does not result in the best outcome?

Why would you not be more concerned with what produces the highest power output for durations/circumstances of interest/relevance?

You are making an assumption/assertion that pedalling a certain way will result in more power.

It's a testable hypothesis Noel, so test it and report back when you have some real data. I'm not holding my breath though.
Using the three techniques circular, mashing and "semi circular" pedalling, I have already stated which is best for the different requirements in competitive cycling, what more is there to test. I am not making an assumption that pedalling in a certain way will result in more power per pedal stroke without increasing peak force, I am doing it every day. It should be obvious to any sensible person that if as in natural pedalling the legs have to idle as they pass through 12 o'c instead of applying maximal torque there, and apply semi tangential force elsewhere when it could be fully tangential, this will result in less power output per pedal stroke. Ye are experts in the use of PC's and PM's but are ignorant in the use of cranks and pedals, I am expert in the use of cranks and pedals but ignorant in the use of PC's and PM's (too old) and therein lies the problem.
  #774  
Old 01-02-13, 18:17
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
ks and pedals, I am expert in the use of cranks and pedals but ignorant in the use of PC's and PM's (too old) and therein lies the problem.
So you have been saying for years but have never provided any supporting data despite the technology being available to test your hypothesis. You haven't even taught this to others locally so they have come out and dominated the cycling world much in the same way no Gimmickcranker has ever outshone riders who use normal cranks. At least what we do as coaches can be measured and the likes of Alex and myself can be pretty happy with our performance!
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #775  
Old 01-02-13, 19:06
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,725
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
much in the same way no Gimmickcranker has ever outshone riders who use normal cranks.
??? Really?
  #776  
Old 01-02-13, 21:11
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
??? Really?


Only another month to go in that latest PC research, any feedback. Why is it not possible to get these 2 nd generation PM's with standard cranks ?
  #777  
Old 01-02-13, 22:05
Alex Simmons/RST's Avatar
Alex Simmons/RST Alex Simmons/RST is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
but ignorant in the use of .... PM's (too old) and therein lies the problem.
Why is age a barrier to obtaining data from tools that have been commercially available for over 25 years?

I had a client who leant the ways of training with power in the last couple of years - he races in the 70+ age category. He was definitely old school, having trained Olympic/pro cyclists himself for many years.
  #778  
Old 01-02-13, 22:17
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
??? Really?
Yeah I went there too. Present the data that shows a Gimmickcranker outshone a Normalcranker solely because they used independent cranks.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #779  
Old 01-02-13, 22:36
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
Why is it not possible to get these 2 nd generation PM's with standard cranks ?
Because most people who understand racing and training with a power meter will only be interested in the overall power number not where the power is being supplied through the pedal stroke. Knowing that will not help them to test their fitness to determine if the training, recovery, nutrition etc is actually working.

Once a cyclist has their optimal pedalling technique sorted there is no further benefit from testing it on a daily basis so any extra expense in measuring it or employing a coach or sport scientist to analyse it is redundant. Like wind tunnel testing it may be a one off deal once or twice a year and makes far more sense than to spend money on redundant equipment.

Bit like Gimmickcrankers training and pedalling technique they will not use in competition. Never seen Cadel riding them in the Pro Peloton. If they thought they would improve performance then they would use them.

What is still not being discussed is the magnitude of performance changes with your delusions. Franks claims a 40% improvement in performance which would take me from D grade to Pro Tour. Now Frank has often said this is just a marketing claim as if he said a 4% improvement then no one would buy his product. We have a local researcher claiming a 4% improvement in 40km TT riders from taking paracetamol. That is a two minute improvement in a 40km TT. Sounds a little far fetched for just taking a pill.

None of the well performed research on Gimmickcranks has shown any improvement in cycling specific fitness so even 2-4% would be stretching the truth. Claiming 40% just shows how low Frank will sink.

So what magnitude of performance improvement are you claiming Noel. Or maybe Jacques was just the best in his day. Someone has to be.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #780  
Old 01-02-13, 22:41
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,725
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Because most people who understand racing and training with a power meter will only be interested in the overall power number not where the power is being supplied through the pedal stroke. Knowing that will not help them to test their fitness to determine if the training, recovery, nutrition etc is actually working.
Really? Perhaps you could explain why the AIS is very interested in these and has been involved in their development for the last couple of years? Or, maybe they don't understand racing and training with a PM there. That must be it.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.