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  #6061  
Old 01-03-13, 12:32
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I understand that retaining the massive tax hikes and spending cuts under what would have happened under the 'fiscal cliff' but this compromise bill imo does not cut on the spending side hard enough considering how much taxes are increased.
What? You are underwhelmed with $1 in cuts for every $41 in new taxes?

Clearly a 'balanced' approach.
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  #6062  
Old 01-03-13, 13:16
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What? You are underwhelmed with $1 in cuts for every $41 in new taxes?

Clearly a 'balanced' approach.
The Republicans in the House only have themselves to blame for that. They were offered much more in cuts and chose to cut their own throats instead. The way they are going, the midterm election will be a slaughter for the Republicans. They are in complete disarray because of the Tea Party Patriots in their midst. The Tea Party experiment has turned out to be one of the worst political movements in our nations history. They are an anti-government minded voting block supported mainly by retired people receiving government assistance of some sort. Great mix that, right?

Edit: The sad thing is that there are many people like me who want to see cuts, but because of the staunch (and fiscally ignorant) view that there can be no serious revenue increases to accompany the cuts, we are stuck in this Grover Norquist fueled idiocy of House members voting like petulant children instead of doing what government is supposed to do and compromise. They are holding our country hostage and it is getting pretty old I must say.
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  #6063  
Old 01-03-13, 13:35
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The Republicans in the House only have themselves to blame for that. They were offered much more in cuts and chose to cut their own throats instead. The way they are going, the midterm election will be a slaughter for the Republicans. They are in complete disarray because of the Tea Party Patriots in their midst. The Tea Party experiment has turned out to be one of the worst political movements in our nations history. They are an anti-government minded voting block supported mainly by retired people receiving government assistance of some sort. Great mix that, right?

Edit: The sad thing is that there are many people like me who want to see cuts, but because of the staunch (and fiscally ignorant) view that there can be no serious revenue increases to accompany the cuts, we are stuck in this Grover Norquist fueled idiocy of House members voting like petulant children instead of doing what government is supposed to do and compromise. They are holding our country hostage and it is getting pretty old I must say.
Then there are those like me who know the only real way to get the debt under control is sustained economic growth. We will not tax our way to economic prosperity nor will we cut our way to it.

Sadly lost in all of this is economic growth... something which those in DC know exactly nothing about.
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Old 01-03-13, 14:57
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Then there are those like me who know the only real way to get the debt under control is sustained economic growth. We will not tax our way to economic prosperity nor will we cut our way to it.

Sadly lost in all of this is economic growth... something which those in DC know exactly nothing about.
But, how Scott, is this to be done? This has been argued for a century now, with varied methods and yet the debt has been increasing exponentially, even as the economy has grown.

On the other hand, is eternal growth even fortuitous? The problem, as I see it, has been that until recently, we had witnessed the almost total removal of any social question from the political discourse, which has been the most noteworthy aspect of politics, the most upsetting, of the previous decades. Above all in the States, where this removal has had the tragic-comic guise of neoliberal policy and the poor or the semi-poor who venerate the rich; as if their neoliberal lies (the "trickle-down" effect, "less corporate taxes and less taxes for the wealthy equals more jobs and investments,” etc., etc.) were the indispensable opiate to forever forget that they are disadvantaged, dispensable and humiliated.

Even in light of this protracted deception, I have been rather impressed with the growing poverty; or better yet impoverishment, which by now is knocking at the neighbor's door, or that of a relative’s or a friend’s. To sustain, therefore, that the job of politics is to combat poverty isn't just a banality: it is, in policy, a rarity today (within both journalism just as in politics). Yet in the breakdown of welfare (especially in Europe), in the frightful contraction of work, what other objective could be more important and, at the same time, innovative, than the organization of a social buffer against misery and solitude? "A new and more convivial society in which we rediscover a way to help each other," wrote a journalist I read the other day. This seems to me, in a very approximate way, an excellent synthesis of any progressive political agenda.

PS: Over the last decades, if not the last century, the entire political discourse has been centered upon making the economy grow and generating wealth, everything's been focused upon the nation's economic performance and investment gains; but this doesn't necessarily mean, and often doesn't, establishing measures to reduce poverty. To the contrary, in spite of economic growth the social inequality has increased considerably, especially over the last decades under the neoliberal regime and so called creative finance. Among the modern democratic and industrialized states this amounts to a failure in purpose, let alone promise.
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Last edited by rhubroma; 01-03-13 at 17:43.
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Old 01-03-13, 17:01
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Then there are those like me who know the only real way to get the debt under control is sustained economic growth. We will not tax our way to economic prosperity nor will we cut our way to it.

Sadly lost in all of this is economic growth... something which those in DC know exactly nothing about.
I think that is the third part of the puzzle. I also believe the other two need serious consideration.

But yea, the real number is debt as a percentage of GDP, and that is far from an historic high.
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Old 01-03-13, 18:04
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But, how Scott, is this to be done?
I'd like to think that my aforementioned suggestion on SBA loans, and coupling such loans to SEA programs would be a nice boost for growth. A slice from a dozen posts ago:

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There needs to be a massive expansion of SBA loans. Specifically the Prime and Micro loans...If the government is going to spend money, backing such loans up to 80-90% would help banks free up some of the money they are hoarding. This is especially true on small businesses...who are scraping by and need a boost. A $50k loan could be a boon to some of these companies (picture your LBS. They spruce up the place, get some advertising out, get in a few new bikes, maybe even hire another employee).

I also favor coupling SBA Prime and Micro loans to SEA programs...If people, especially long term unemployed, aren't going to find meaningful jobs why not loan them $10-25k you're going to give them anyway to sit at home and look for work that isn't there? With this money they can start a small business... Look at it this way, even if these businesses fail completely, the money will go back into society and the people will be productive, and gain valuable experience.
This won't fix the economy, but I can't possibly see a reason why anyone would think it's a step in the wrong direction.
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  #6067  
Old 01-03-13, 18:21
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I'd like to think that my aforementioned suggestion on SBA loans, and coupling such loans to SEA programs would be a nice boost for growth. A slice from a dozen posts ago:



This won't fix the economy, but I can't possibly see a reason why anyone would think it's a step in the wrong direction.
This makes sense and that is the biggest reason why it won't happen. Self sufficient people who don't "need" government for their existence are seemingly undesirable to those in DC who claim to know better.

Plus, exactly how big will the political contributions be (and to which party) for those only getting a $50,000 SBA loan?
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  #6068  
Old 01-03-13, 18:29
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I'd like to think that my aforementioned suggestion on SBA loans, and coupling such loans to SEA programs would be a nice boost for growth. A slice from a dozen posts ago:



This won't fix the economy, but I can't possibly see a reason why anyone would think it's a step in the wrong direction.
In a country such as the US any real "boost" would be relative.

Conversely microfinance has been all the rage lately in India, with Karnataka-based microfinance provider Shri Kshethra Dharmasthala Rural Development Project being universally applauded. Though I couldn't say how efficacious. In principle it seems strategically well founded, because if the base doesn't grow then no real growth is possible.
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Old 01-03-13, 18:33
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I think that is the third part of the puzzle. I also believe the other two need serious consideration.

But yea, the real number is debt as a percentage of GDP, and that is far from an historic high.
While technically true, we are in trouble with debt as a percentage of GDP and cumulative total. The debt service is starting to hurt and that's with historically low interest rates. As an example, our annual interest expense is something around $225 Billion. The new tax increases will only generate about $85 Billion annually AND we will add another Trillion to the debt this year. And next year. And the year after that.

Again, more revenue needs to be generated from falling unemployment and economic growth. A flat economy with rising tax rates will create nothing more than an extended flat economy. It's stupid, but Obama is hell -bent on doing it anyways.
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Old 01-03-13, 20:48
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While technically true, we are in trouble with debt as a percentage of GDP and cumulative total. The debt service is starting to hurt and that's with historically low interest rates. As an example, our annual interest expense is something around $225 Billion. The new tax increases will only generate about $85 Billion annually AND we will add another Trillion to the debt this year. And next year. And the year after that.

Again, more revenue needs to be generated from falling unemployment and economic growth. A flat economy with rising tax rates will create nothing more than an extended flat economy. It's stupid, but Obama is hell -bent on doing it anyways.
Actually I've read its been estimated at 600 billion annually, with however a deficit of 4 trillion to contain. At any rate, "first things first." Thus if it's neither tax, nor cut, then what is the solution? Evidently it hasn't been working for Greece either. What will thus transform a flat economy into a a booming business haven at this point. Bomb Iran? Occupy South America? World War III?

Because "happy downsizing" doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda.

Last edited by rhubroma; 01-03-13 at 21:05.
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