Sky - Page 1130 - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11291  
Old 01-03-13, 14:31
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Name one cyclist not caught for doping who came out and ratted out other dopers.
Everyone bar Hamilton and Landis in Lance's case? It's a matter of motivation to get people talking, and missing out on an Olympic gold when

i) In training, you'd been in a trio that rode faster than the gold medal winning time;

ii) You'd been promised a ride even though not selected for the initial trio; and

iii) You're 37 and have no more chances

might just motivate you. Note the conditional here. She was motivated enough to speak to the press about not getting a ride and I doubt that her subsequent treatment made her any happier!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Your argument is full of omerta-ignorance.
And I suggest your non-argument is full of ignorance of a few things as well, most notably motivation and the specifics of the TP selection situation.

The most likely scenario is that she was as mad as hell but there was no story to tell.
Reply With Quote
  #11292  
Old 01-03-13, 14:57
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
..
And I suggest your non-argument is full of ignorance of a few things as well, most notably motivation and the specifics of the TP selection situation.

The most likely scenario is that she was as mad as hell but there was no story to tell.
and you're blaming us for coming up with theories?
yours is the wildest one.

the guys who ratted out lance are completely irrelevant. they were put under federal pressure and under oath.

think of what benotti69 said above: why ffs would she burn her bridge to Rio by spilling the beans?
look at Trent Lowe. No more way back for that guy.

Dear Wiggo was right. You're severely underestimating omerta.

Last edited by sniper; 01-03-13 at 15:03.
Reply With Quote
  #11293  
Old 01-03-13, 15:07
Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
and you're blaming us for coming up with theories?
yours is the wildest one.

the guys who ratted out lance are completely irrelevant. they were put under federal pressure and under oath.

think of what benotti69 said above: why ffs would she burn her bridge to Rio by spilling the beans?
look at Trent Lowe. No more way back for that guy.

Dear Wiggo was right. You're severely underestimating omerta.
One very famous and public one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Rooks

Even made it, here:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1395



Although, no bean spilling on others...........
..........of course, there's always Frankie Andreu

Last edited by Mellow Velo; 01-03-13 at 15:12.
Reply With Quote
  #11294  
Old 01-03-13, 15:18
Susan Westemeyer's Avatar
Susan Westemeyer Susan Westemeyer is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,414
Default

Let us please nevertheless take the womens' discussion to its own thread. Why shouldn't the women have the same chances and opportunities as the men?

Susan
__________________
I dream of a better world, where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.
Reply With Quote
  #11295  
Old 01-03-13, 15:24
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
why ffs would she burn her bridge to Rio by spilling the beans?
I think she's already burnt it by complaining to the media at the time. Referring to Laura, Dani and Jo as "juvenile" probably didn't help either.
Reply With Quote
  #11296  
Old 01-03-13, 15:31
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,530
Default

If you take Andreu's case, he came clean because he was asked about it on a daily basis and he didn't feel like lying. That guy had a conscience, and having to lie about his past was eating him. I don'T know about the Rooks, Winnen and Ducrot, but I assume the same applied to them.

Perhaps Wendy hasn't told us her story because nobody has asked her about it. So I'd say let's just ask Wendy.
And don't forget she might have been doped without knowing.

By the way, we know about such practices (i.e. doping athletes without their knowledge) not just from soccer. We've heard that story about ADR 1989 as well. They were doping their riders without their knowledge. Lemond didn't trust his teamdocs as a consequence.

Last edited by sniper; 01-03-13 at 15:50.
Reply With Quote
  #11297  
Old 01-03-13, 16:01
Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post

Perhaps Wendy hasn't told us her story because nobody has asked her about it. So I'd say let's just ask Wendy.
And don't forget she might have been doped without knowing.

By the way, we know about such practices (i.e. doping athletes without their knowledge) not just from soccer. We've heard that story about ADR 1989 as well. They were doping their riders without their knowledge. Lemond didn't trust his teamdocs as a consequence.

Feel free to speculate.
You'll appreciate that I can't join in.
Reply With Quote
  #11298  
Old 01-03-13, 16:04
Freddythefrog Freddythefrog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
and you're blaming us for coming up with theories?
yours is the wildest one.

the guys who ratted out lance are completely irrelevant. they were put under federal pressure and under oath.

think of what benotti69 said above: why ffs would she burn her bridge to Rio by spilling the beans?
look at Trent Lowe. No more way back for that guy.

Dear Wiggo was right. You're severely underestimating omerta.
The wrong level. The women's track program can be entirely clean and be as dominant as it has been. It adds a huge amount to the respectability of whole lot. Just think - where did Lance go wrong ? And to anyone like Dave or Shane, they knew in 2000 that Lance was doped up as much as Riis had been before him. They would have watched and known that Lance was in the treacle, as they thought about constructing Team Sky. OK it was more than likely that in 2007/8, as they planned, that the consensus was that Lance would survive, but the fault line to potential failure was there to see. Make sure we don't make that mistake. It was completely obvious to anyone thinking about doping. You don't deal with anyone who will blab.

Lance screwed up by letting too many people in on the plan.

Fact - the peloton is slower. Conclusion the program does not need to embrace as many as it had to in the time of Lance. Froome may well be a renegade doing his own thing, oblivious to a generally clean Sky (that is boys and girls) away from a tiny nucleus who all know exactly what the deal is and are not going to leak. That Nucleus would be as mad with Froome as anyone because he is bringing the probing eyes towards their carefully constructed plan.

Last edited by Freddythefrog; 01-03-13 at 16:35. Reason: getting it to make sense !
Reply With Quote
  #11299  
Old 01-03-13, 16:06
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Feel free to speculate.
You'll appreciate that I can't join in.
I do appreciate it.
I was just rebutting Wallace and Gromit's suggestion that 'no story' equals 'no doping'.
You're correct that everything else is mere speculation.
Reply With Quote
  #11300  
Old 01-03-13, 16:12
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,530
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddythefrog View Post
The wrong level. The women's track program can be entirely clean and be as dominant as it has been. It adds a huge amount to the respectability of whole lot. Just think - where did Lance go wrong ? And to anyone like Dave or Shane, they knew in 2000 that the Lance was doped up as much as Riis had been before him. They would have watched and known that Lance was in the treacle as they thought about making Team Sky. OK it was more than likely that in 2007/8 as the planned the consensus was that Lance would survive but the fault line was there to see.

Lance screwed up by letting too many people in on the plan.

Fact - the peloton is slower. Conclusion the program does not need to embrace as many as it had to in the time of Lance. Froome may well be a renegade doing his own thing, oblivious to a generally clean Sky (that is boys and girls) away from a tiny nucleus who all know exactly what the deal is and are not going to leak. That Nucleus would be as mad with Froome as anyone because he is bringing the probing eyes towards their carefully constructed plan.
Guys like Rodriguez, Contador, Evans, Frandy, etc. make the impression of being on individual programs, comparatively restricted individual programs, due to the threat of being flagged by the passport. Their form is correspondingly unstable, peaks alternating with drops in form. They look like they're 'searching'.
Sky makes the impression of having a team-wide program in place. Arguably they are the only team with the financial means to dope at this sophisticated level. Their results are stable. The medical know-how required to pull off such a scheme shouldn't be underestimated. Sky are ahead of the game. And it's not because of warming down techniques or skin suits.

Ashenden and Kimmage know what time it is.

Last edited by sniper; 01-03-13 at 16:17.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.