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  #31  
Old 01-04-13, 03:07
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Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
Barry has admitted his doping.
How much do you think it costs to 'prosecute' someone under those circumstances?
Master50 was talking about USADA - Dede Barry, not Michael.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-13, 05:29
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Is there any point where you just move foreword?
Pat and Hein keep trying to sell the "move on" for the last 20 years and it's gotten us doping deaths, Conconi/Ferarri/scumbag lab geniuses, Festina, Willy Voet, Armstrong's scumbag crew at Tailwind/USA Cycling.

"forward" in this environment is the Sky 2012 doping/race fixing.

Why do you insist on pretending?
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Tammy Thomas is writing a book about her cycling career and is asking for funding.

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Last edited by DirtyWorks; 01-04-13 at 05:32.
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  #33  
Old 01-04-13, 16:22
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Fortyninefourteen Fortyninefourteen is offline
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Glad to hear it. Carding money is modest, but there is value in the appearance of the funding recovery.

The CCA has been embarrassing with its public comments on the whole affair, however.

Here was the official CCA press release on the release of the USADA Reasoned Decision:

"John Tolkamp, President of the Cycling Canada reacted to the news: "The sport of road cycling has come a long way in the last five to seven years to clean-up the sport....today we can witness that the culture of the sport of road cycling is rapidly changing towards a clean sport."


Classic Ostrich.

And then this:

“Michael was the quintessential Canadian: loyal, selfless, hard working, understated,” Canadian Cycling Association president John Tolkamp said after Barry’s retirement announcement.

Like many, Tolkamp was shocked and saddened with what he learned from Barry’s testimony.


That is completely embarrassing.

What is the quintessential Canadian? Apparently it is a self-admitted doper.

Don't expect any change leadership on doping in this country.

Dave.
I am not quite that negative.

The Quebec federation has historically come down very hard on riders who either have tested + or even suspicious riders.

They threw Jeanson under the bus hard when she missed doping controls....no license from Canada. She had to get a US license. She was hounded by the local media until she cracked. I was in Hamilton when her hematocrit test came back @ 56 or 57. Standard operating procedure.Press conference, denial, hypoxic tent the culprit.....while other Canadian girls all knew what was up.

The 2 guys currently running the performance side of the CCA walked away from Europe mostly because of the dope culture.

CCA needs funding badly and could not afford to be tolerant to dopers.

I hope I am right.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-13, 16:31
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I am not quite that negative.

The Quebec federation has historically come down very hard on riders who either have tested + or even suspicious riders.

I hope I am right.
I can't recall which federation did what in Canada, but what about the elite Louis Garneau amateurs who were busted for EPO use? The usual "isolated incident" response from the federation and then total silence.

Which, I don't believe. Someone, maybe more than one is a source for EPO in a small summer athletics scene and that topic was never discussed.
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Tammy Thomas is writing a book about her cycling career and is asking for funding.

http://www.gofundme.com/a4mlho

https://twitter.com/FitnessLawyer

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  #35  
Old 01-04-13, 16:52
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I can't recall which federation did what in Canada, but what about the elite Louis Garneau amateurs who were busted for EPO use? The usual "isolated incident" response from the federation and then total silence.

Which, I don't believe. Someone, maybe more than one is a source for EPO in a small summer athletics scene and that topic was never discussed.
Actually, a lot was done on that case and I am not trying to be defensive or argumentative. The head of the Quebec federation has some big balls when it comes to dopers.


When the federation and the team, Garneau himself, pushed to find the source, the riders refused to give it up citing that they 'would have their legs broken' or worse....I have no trouble believing that if a gym pusher was ratted out, things would not go well for the snitch. This has got to be a huge business for someone who can get supply.


It turns out that the EPO and whatever other stuff that is floating around is the domain of the 'recreational and athletic products' division of the local drug trade controlled by the underworld. (bikers, mob, ....for real) Not the same kind of people in Europe supplying the athletes.

There were a number of master's racers who also rang the bell for EPO. The older guys with dough get it straight from their own doctors, so nothing to find there.

It is a tough one to chase but it is high on the radar for the local federations and their efforts may be inadequate, but they are sincere.
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  #36  
Old 01-04-13, 16:54
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
Pat and Hein keep trying to sell the "move on" for the last 20 years and it's gotten us doping deaths, Conconi/Ferarri/scumbag lab geniuses, Festina, Willy Voet, Armstrong's scumbag crew at Tailwind/USA Cycling.

"forward" in this environment is the Sky 2012 doping/race fixing.

Why do you insist on pretending?
It is a valid question. but several of the examples you give are embroiled with current cases. Plus if my economic justification is a model then these may fit the return on prosecution vs cost. It may be offensive to make it a cost factor but the general return to society against the cost to prosecute is a daily factor in criminal cases where often real physical harm to another is shown.

As for the Barry's Michael has been given a judgement which he and the CCC has seemed to accept.

Dede is long retired and is accused of past doping offences for which little if any evidence exists? Is she named in a widespread conspiracy (other than being a pro rider) that would reveal a pattern of intimidation and actions to prevent detection of her offence beyond the statute of limitations? No? Then move on, This one is a waste of money and a lot of other resources that cost money too.

This is not a moral position it is simply pragmatic. In a combat hospital we do not give the medical team unlimited resources to save every soldiers life. No one will dispute that every soldier deserves every resource to save his life if wounded but we know there are limits.

If we cannot apply unlimited resources to root out every past case and follow every snake trail or we will never race our bikes. Then there is all the sports too.
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  #37  
Old 01-04-13, 17:09
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Plus if my economic justification is a model then these may fit the return on prosecution vs cost. It may be offensive to make it a cost factor but the general return to society against the cost to prosecute is a daily factor in criminal cases where often real physical harm to another is shown.
That's a fundamentally broken rationale.

Lots of things can be justified economically. Here's some designed to shock the reader:
-slavery
-child prostitution
-private armies e.g. mercenaries of all ages, "terrorists"
-unregulated opiates sales

Using economic justification as the benchmark, let's just admit Pro cycling is entertainment wresting and be done. The DS's can work out some dramatic endings including some great acting after crossing the line. That's where the sport is going using wealth generation as the rule.

In order for viewers to have some confidence there is really a game in motion while racing, someone has to defend that perception. Pat and Hein certainly are not. They are using your tactic of "moving on" to great effect already.
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Tammy Thomas is writing a book about her cycling career and is asking for funding.

http://www.gofundme.com/a4mlho

https://twitter.com/FitnessLawyer

This is a good time for her to tell her story.

Last edited by DirtyWorks; 01-04-13 at 17:17.
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  #38  
Old 01-04-13, 20:52
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Lots of pi55ed people here in Canada about this guy. He is not even returning phone calls from the cycling media, to whom he lied for years about clean bla bla.....and now claims to be the spokesperson for clean sport in schools etc.

The most offensive part of his and others' confessions, is how they all magically found God around the same time.

Head of the CCA wants his carding money back, and if there was any sincerity in Barry's atonement, he would give back the money. Let's see how that goes......
I too am ****ed off. I rode against Barry when he was young and to be fair he was impressive even being 6 yrs younger. A few of us cheered him on at the 1996 Altanta games with Bauer, Walton and Wohlberg present. Barry was very shy and timid back then.

Watching him charge up the Hamilton Escarpment in 2003...'not normal' for Mike for sure. A few years ago I sent a couple of emails to him, one complimentary and the other asking him book Le Metrier...then his denial Re: Landis and then the confessional. Brutal morality for sure. After his confessional I reached out to him to confess all and share with WADA and the Canadian branch about his doping. Nothing. His plan to be apart of the solution and talk to aspiring cyclist is not what Canadian cycling needs frankly. Maybe he could write some cycling fiction?

He is no longer a cyclist, writer or person to look up to or hold in good stead. He and his wife are now another sad example of malevolant sports ethics. His recent mug on the cover of Canadian Cyclist has left me we mixed feelings too. Sh1T put Walton or Wohlbeg on the cover.
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  #39  
Old 01-04-13, 21:04
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Originally Posted by pedaling squares View Post
Master50 was talking about USADA - Dede Barry, not Michael.
Ok, if this is their stance - then I guess the logical answer is zero.
As there will be no money diverted from testing to pursue a case, as it does not exist.
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  #40  
Old 01-04-13, 23:07
D-Queued D-Queued is offline
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Originally Posted by Fortyninefourteen View Post
I am not quite that negative.

The Quebec federation has historically come down very hard on riders who either have tested + or even suspicious riders.

They threw Jeanson under the bus hard when she missed doping controls....no license from Canada. She had to get a US license. She was hounded by the local media until she cracked. I was in Hamilton when her hematocrit test came back @ 56 or 57. Standard operating procedure.Press conference, denial, hypoxic tent the culprit.....while other Canadian girls all knew what was up.

The 2 guys currently running the performance side of the CCA walked away from Europe mostly because of the dope culture.

CCA needs funding badly and could not afford to be tolerant to dopers.

I hope I am right.
I think it is actually the other way around. And it is the other way around exactly because of the money. The CCA appears to be scared sh!tless about the doping culture and revealing its existence.

Honesty on doping threatens the money.

Moreover, if the IOC were to suspend or ban cycling in the Olympics, the CCA's money would dry up completely. Honest dialog on doping is the CCA's worst nightmare.

They are motivated to pretend doping doesn't exist. And, unlike the Quebec federation, they are doing a good job of pretending.

Genevieve Jeansen is a great example. Quebec refused to license her, but the CCA had no problem encouraging her participation at Nationals. If I were in those races (right after the sex change, of course), I would be pretty po'd.

I cannot believe that the guys at the CCA are stupid.

There have been some really obvious, and very well known and oft-discussed dopers in Canada - and they are still riding.

Dave.
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