The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get - Page 85 - Cyclingnews Forum

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  #841  
Old 01-06-13, 11:01
sniper sniper is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
I'm more inclined to believe 2009 was his experimental year and 2010 he was strangled by new team management, his performances, all of Sky's performances, reflecting this.

2011 he was back on the wagon. Ooh look, Dr Leinders is here. Well I never.

Regardless of these theories, having the blood passport values, with dates, from 2009 - 2012 should surely paint a telling picture of cleanliness or dirtiness.

People are so quick to jump on the "you're not an expert" or "you're a hater" bandwagon, but here's the bottom line: 5 years of blood profile data cannot be anything but complete and irrefutable proof either way. It's too much data tied to too many training camps and race results to be anything but indicative of clean or doped riding.
this i think is hitting nail on head.
data over a five year period would average out any isolated measurement errors and would give a compelling overall image.
but we're not going to get it, for obvious reasons.
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  #842  
Old 01-06-13, 12:42
Corona Corona is offline
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I don't think there is any doubt Wiggo was clean in 2007.

Call me naive but I also think Brailsford was initially genuine with his marginal gains and winning the tour clean. I think he managed to do that with the track team due to the extraordinary funding and facilities in Manchester in a sport that wasn't taken that seriously by too many countries. I suspect he arrogantly thought he could do the same in the world of road racing but got a rude awakening.

Once he signed Wiggins after his excellent showing in the 09 tour they both had a problem as 2010 showed. If 'Mr Clean JV' can get that kind of performance out of Wiggo but DB can't it tarnishes his reputation somewhat. Or, does he throw one of BC's shining lights under a bus and suggest all may not have been as it seemed in 09?

There was the well documented meeting between them at the end of the 2010 debacle. I wonder if it was then that Bradley said 'wake up and smell the coffee Dave, if you want to win the tour then this is how it's gotta be...'
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  #843  
Old 01-06-13, 12:51
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
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Originally Posted by Wiggo Warrior View Post
The weight was in the 2011 tour section, he put on a couple of kilos of core muscle for 2012 after problems TTing in the Vuelta according to reports which means closer to 6.62w/kg in the 2012 TT.

Ooops, missed the bit where the TT 470w was for a 6km section. Book re-reading time...
If you actually read the book, it says he wanted to strengthen his body via gym work WITHOUT gaining any muscle weight whatsoever.
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  #844  
Old 01-06-13, 12:52
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Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
this i think is hitting nail on head.
data over a five year period would average out any isolated measurement errors and would give a compelling overall image.
but we're not going to get it, for obvious reasons.
Transparency, transparency, wherefore art though now, transparency?

5 years worth!

I think if they revealed all the data - anonymised - for all the riders, there'd be a veritable "What the-!?" from anyone with half a brain.

I double dare them.
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  #845  
Old 01-06-13, 12:53
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
SundayRider you're a welcome addition to the Clinic.

From your notations Wiggins as fast if not faster than Lance in ITT - watt for watt, yes?
Yes I would say so Hog. Just had a look at Tyler's book and he reports a watts/kilo of 6.5 just before the Dauphine in 2001.
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  #846  
Old 01-06-13, 13:06
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
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Originally Posted by samerics View Post
Nonsense, I take it you've never lost your temper then? He's far from stupid, but when you've just left your **** on the road for 5 hours you're not going to be relaxed for an interview like that.
Ever heard the expression 'those who protest too much'. For example someone challenges you on something if you really in your heart of hearts know you are right then your unlikely to react with anger and spite in that way.
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  #847  
Old 01-06-13, 13:32
xcleigh xcleigh is offline
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Originally Posted by SundayRider View Post
Ever heard the expression 'those who protest too much'. For example someone challenges you on something if you really in your heart of hearts know you are right then your unlikely to react with anger and spite in that way.

Trouble with that is that you are assuming that every person reacts in exactly the same way in any given situation.
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  #848  
Old 01-06-13, 13:35
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
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True, but reacting like that just makes it look like there is something to hide IMO.
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  #849  
Old 01-06-13, 13:37
xcleigh xcleigh is offline
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Originally Posted by SundayRider View Post
True, but reacting like that just makes it look like there is something to hide IMO.
That's fine and you may well be right.
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  #850  
Old 01-06-13, 13:38
Fearless Greg Lemond's Avatar
Fearless Greg Lemond Fearless Greg Lemond is offline
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True, but reacting like that just makes it look like there is something to hide IMO.
Maybe Sir Knighthood just has a high natural testosterone level...
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