For the "pedaling technique doesn't matter crowd" - Page 86 - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Form & Fitness > General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #851  
Old 01-06-13, 21:19
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
How do you know this when you have never collected any data to show it?
The old counting method works every time.
  #852  
Old 01-06-13, 21:26
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,737
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Broker in High-Tech Cycling reported data from different groups of cyclists who found that force effectiveness was negatively correlated with power and gave the example of sprint cyclists who produce the greatest amounts of power through the smallest amount of the downstroke.
Unless Broker's data included riders who have actually learned how to better use the backstroke I don't think we should conclude too much from his data about what techniques are superior. Go back and look at the actual Carrigan forces on the backstroke and how they changed with power. There simply isn't enough data to conclude anything about this stuff.
__________________
Life is short, both reading my posts and training with PowerCranks will make it seem longer
  #853  
Old 01-06-13, 21:32
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
The old counting method works every time.
How amusing.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #854  
Old 01-06-13, 21:36
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
Unless Broker's data included riders who have actually learned how to better use the backstroke I don't think we should conclude too much from his data about what techniques are superior.
We don't need to, plenty of well performed studies showing a change in force application around the pedal stroke don't lead to improved overall power or over time an increase in cycling specific fitness of any type.

Quote:
Go back and look at the actual Carrigan forces on the backstroke and how they changed with power. There simply isn't enough data to conclude anything about this stuff.
All pretty irrelevant considering road cyclists don't perform with a Gimmikcrank so more important to look at the studies performed using the normal cranks that riders will use in competition.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #855  
Old 01-06-13, 23:14
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Wow what vivid imaginations you both have.

Broker in High-Tech Cycling reported data from different groups of cyclists who found that force effectiveness was negatively correlated with power and gave the example of sprint cyclists who produce the greatest amounts of power through the smallest amount of the downstroke.
.
You being the coach should be able to explain why ?
  #856  
Old 01-06-13, 23:23
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
You being the coach should be able to explain why ?
The situation (track vs road, vs MTB) and the duration of the event determines how power is applied through the pedal stroke. Training specifically for any event takes care of this.

You are trying to say there is a better way of pedalling in time trials but have not presented any data that this actually happens despite the equipment to test this hypothesis being available for 30+ years.

Frank is trying to say that we should pedal differently to how we intend to perform and that using a crank that forces this change will cause changes that will remain after we go back onto normal cranks for competition. Again not presenting any data to prove this happens and plenty of well performed research to show that no change in force application around the pedal stroke allows for greater overall power, that training like this provides a better training stimulus and that the new technique is retained when a rider goes back onto normal cranks. Neither published or anecdotally.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it

Last edited by CoachFergie; 01-06-13 at 23:30.
  #857  
Old 01-06-13, 23:40
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Wow what vivid imaginations you both have.

Broker in High-Tech Cycling reported data from different groups of cyclists who found that force effectiveness was negatively correlated with power and gave the example of sprint cyclists who produce the greatest amounts of power through the smallest amount of the downstroke.

Why do sprint cyclists who produce the greatest amount of power do it through the smallest amount of downstroke.
  #858  
Old 01-06-13, 23:44
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,300
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
Why do sprint cyclists who produce the greatest amount of power do it through the smallest amount of downstroke.
Because they are pedalling at 130-150rpm.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #859  
Old 01-06-13, 23:57
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Because they are pedalling at 130-150rpm.
but their feet still have to go through the 1 to 5 o'c power zone.
  #860  
Old 01-07-13, 00:12
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post

You are trying to say there is a better way of pedalling in time trials but have not presented any data that this actually happens despite the equipment to test this hypothesis being available for 30+ years.


Anquetil presented all the proof that is necessary throughout all his racing years.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.