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  #6121  
Old 01-07-13, 14:07
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And this is the problem: too much insurance, too much litigation in the private US system. Take these things out and the costs go down. I've gone over this with you before, having a healthcare system that's purely confined to a praxis centered upon a business and market logic, is perverse, anti-progressive and ultimately sinister. That and it's terribly undemocratic. As if speculating on peoples access to medical care, were the same as going to buy a new television set.

Are you saying that the insurers should only cover those they deem worthy of their services, because not "so unhealthy" to be economically disadvantageous? What about the low income folks and small business providers, in regards to absorbing the hit of these appallingly ill-considered and consciously timed rates hike?

Everything that's wrong with this private system and ideology behind it has been made glaringly clear with the insurance companies' move. It is an exclusive system, not inclusive, that's permissible to only those that can afford it, in a growing number of cases, only through considerable pain and sacrifice, whereas to just as many more an impossibility. Consequently, itís stupid of you to blame this on the government and not private business.

How can you guys accept this intolerable America, where it's every man for himself and the weak simply get left behind (not only in principle, but also practice)? Despicable. God bless the republican egoists.

And while they're at it, let's increase military subsidies.
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Are you saying that the insurers should only cover those they deem worthy of their services, because not "so unhealthy" to be economically disadvantageous?
No. I'm saying covering the unhealthy cost exponentially more than those who are healthy in any system. I have no problem covering everybody. Just don't ***** about cost of care increases passed on to the end user.

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It is an exclusive system, not inclusive, that's permissible to only those that can afford it, in a growing number of cases, only through considerable pain and sacrifice, whereas to just as many more an impossibility. Consequently, itís stupid of you to blame this on the government and not private business.
It's inclusive. Nothing's free. It's neither the governments fault that people need healthcare nor the fault of business. Cost is cost. Think about how much more you will pay for life insurance if everybody can buy it even if they are terminally ill for example.

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How can you guys accept this intolerable America, where it's every man for himself and the weak simply get left behind (not only in principle, but also practice)? Despicable. God bless the republican egoists.
That's all fine. All I'm saying is everything we were told regarding Obamacare and cost is garbage and was from the very beginning.
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  #6122  
Old 01-07-13, 14:25
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We are doomed.

Danny Glover: Paul Krugman for Treasury


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...833.html?hp=r3
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  #6123  
Old 01-07-13, 17:58
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No. I'm saying covering the unhealthy cost exponentially more than those who are healthy in any system. I have no problem covering everybody. Just don't ***** about cost of care increases passed on to the end user.
This is true, but this isn't a problem of healthcare but an entire way of life.

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It's inclusive. Nothing's free. It's neither the governments fault that people need healthcare nor the fault of business. Cost is cost. Think about how much more you will pay for life insurance if everybody can buy it even if they are terminally ill for example.
Cost isn't cost. Within a business construct preferential treatment is a dividend of purchase, which isn't the same as covering everyone irrespective of individual expense through the public fiscal contribution.



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That's all fine. All I'm saying is everything we were told regarding Obamacare and cost is garbage and was from the very beginning.
Let me just say that I don't like Obamacare, because it's trying to fix the problem from the wrong end. It would be better to remove, as much as possible, the insurance business and the lawyers from healthcare, and healthcare costs, and focus on measures to curb public expense while potentiating research and development.

PS. Of course, I'm not saying eliminate a private option, just have a public institution in place.

Last edited by rhubroma; 01-07-13 at 18:28.
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  #6124  
Old 01-08-13, 10:44
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In case anyone missed it or didn't even hear about it, please treat yourself to one of BD's buds 'debating' the gun question with Piers Morgan. This is truly priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uymMI_omik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5myV_-2XjI
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  #6125  
Old 01-08-13, 15:12
mikeNphilly mikeNphilly is offline
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Somehow I knew that a woman defending her home against a criminal, who is breaking the law, and to do who knows what to her, or the children, or if the criminal just came in to steal stuff, somehow I knew you some of you guys would side with the criminal. If you break into someones house, you deserve to get shot...period. Seems some of your laws in Italy are quite silly, I would be in jail in your country I guess. Thankfully in this brave womans case we don't have to second guess what was saved, since she ended the issue rather well.

One of you it seems were victims of a mugging in Philly, I was a victim of a home invasion in Philly, and had a gun at the back my neck while laying on the ground with 2 others...long story short one perp took 9 rounds and lived to go to court, the other 2 invaders got ran off and left their friend, but got caught later...all three are doing 30+ for armed robbery. Thankfully my friends and I didn't just lay there and hoping they would just go away and take my flat screen.

It's clear that the sides of the gun issue are very far apart, I rest assured that the 2nd Admenment, won't be taken away, but I have no problem with me not being able to buy a 30 round magazine(or 100 round)...until people stop the straw purchases of cheap handguns, the gun culture will always be a problem. Mass shooting gets the headlines, while 400 killings in Philly every year with cheap hanguns barely get noticed...to many people make money of straw purchases fueling the arms race in the inner city, for this to change.
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  #6126  
Old 01-08-13, 15:58
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Originally Posted by mikeNphilly View Post
Somehow I knew that a woman defending her home against a criminal, who is breaking the law, and to do who knows what to her, or the children, or if the criminal just came in to steal stuff, somehow I knew you some of you guys would side with the criminal. If you break into someones house, you deserve to get shot...period...straw purchases fueling the arms race in the inner city, for this to change.
But this is a Far West mentality that's been given up in more civilized societies, or at least among the more civil within them.

There is something known as a proportioned response, which escapes you here. In the absence of a gun, killing the burglar or agonizing him with a firearm isn't a proportioned response, no matter the circumstances. This has to do with placing greater value in life (not the burglar's, just life in general) over material goods, however personal and domestic. Of course if the burglar has an intention to kill, then a corresponding response can't be taken as disproportioned.

At the same time this isn't about "taking the criminal's side" either, but finding more evolved and less reactionary responses to deal with (or even view) the situation. Then there would be the concept of dispensing justice, which can't be left in the hands of individual citizens (again for reasons of not encouraging a Far West state of affairs, or how about the Middle Ages), and so must be placed in those of the legal institutions and judicial process, after law enfocement has done its job.

Sure the impulse to defend one's home and family is comprehensibly a natural inclination, at times with a ferocity that the situation demands. However, we really shouldn't glorify that woman for what she did, which is to glorify the violence and potency that anyone obtains with a firearm. Someone who can easily be transformed into a cold-blooded killer, even if this was to "defend" one's home. There's already enough incivility and gun violence out there to not have need to applaud such instances, which only represent the barbarity within us. Even if of necessity, it is still a tragic outcome, about which there is nothing to extol. Those who do today are simply rather underdeveloped and cretinous. I’m aware they are many.

The issue of a society that treats a right to bear arms as holy writ and the culture of violence this has begotten, are really the tragic aspect in all of this. I was held up at gun point in Philly, if that's what you meant. The event only reinforced my conviction that I wanted nothing to do with such weapons, have no need of them and would rather die living with this principle, and because of it, than otherwise. Hopefully it won't come to that. Terrible home robbery you describe, but the problems lie here and more guns are not the solution. The mass glorification of "gun justice" is another terrible aspect of the American folly.

Last edited by rhubroma; 01-08-13 at 16:12.
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  #6127  
Old 01-08-13, 19:55
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How come the cons never complain about out-of-control defense spending?

http://dailydish.typepad.com/.a/6a00...36db970b-popup

...despite the fact that it's the one sector where Americans agree that the deepest cuts should be made?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...t_defense.html
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  #6128  
Old 01-08-13, 21:29
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First they outlawed sea-level rise, now oil is a renewable resource.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...id=SA_Facebook

Those NC Rs sure are a fun bunch to watch.
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  #6129  
Old 01-08-13, 21:53
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That's all fine. All I'm saying is everything we were told regarding Obamacare and cost is garbage and was from the very beginning.
Yes it is.

http://health.wusf.usf.edu/post/legi...ng-them-anyway

Except it's the right that keeps shoveling it.
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  #6130  
Old 01-08-13, 22:24
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Originally Posted by Amsterhammer View Post
In case anyone missed it or didn't even hear about it, please treat yourself to one of BD's buds 'debating' the gun question with Piers Morgan. This is truly priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uymMI_omik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5myV_-2XjI
"At any rate, watch this lunatic meltdown on live tv, and keep in mind this is the kind of person who wants unlimited access to guns."

The right does have a point about keeping the mentally ill away from guns.
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