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  #881  
Old 01-08-13, 19:54
coapman coapman is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
That's quite amusing when you consider that of any Hour record breaking he produced the least amount of power.


To win by a second was enough for Anquetil, he did not believe in wasting energy and all his TT's were timed to perfection, he always had plenty in reserve.
  #882  
Old 01-08-13, 19:59
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CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
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To win by a second was enough for Anquetil, he did not believe in wasting energy and all his TT's were timed to perfection, he always had plenty in reserve.
Cool story Bro, but not as compelling as data.
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  #883  
Old 01-08-13, 21:09
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When a rider gets out of the saddle, he can apply full body weight force to the pedal with average stress on his thigh muscles, but if he attempts to apply full body weight to the pedal when seated, things are very different. This is because he is now using indirect resistance for this force, it has to be transferred from the hip to the knee before force can be applied vertically downward from the knee. To overcome this problem Anquetil changed his peak torque spot from just after 3 o'c to 1 o'c, which meant he could now use direct resistance in the upper two thirds of his power stroke and apply much more torque there with very little stress on his thigh muscles, in addition to extending his pedalling power stroke from 120 to 180 degrees.
Do you have pics of Anquetil doing this? It seems to me he would have to slide his saddle back further than normal and to achieve aero position would really close his hip angle. Which is not good either. And if he was starting his peak torque earlier he would be losing it earlier. The cranks are round after all with a limited arm.
just a thought.
  #884  
Old 01-09-13, 01:30
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Parrot23 Parrot23 is offline
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Originally Posted by coapman View Post
Anquetil changed his peak torque spot from just after 3 o'c to 1 o'c, which meant he could now use direct resistance in the upper two thirds of his power stroke and apply much more torque there with very little stress on his thigh muscles, in addition to extending his pedalling power stroke from 120 to 180 degrees.
I think Anquetil was well-known for toe down pedalling, a bit different from Lemond with his widely known/used "scrap the mud off the bottom of his shoes" ankling metaphor (as if on a doormat). I think all types of pedallers win the Tour.
  #885  
Old 01-09-13, 09:44
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CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
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I think Anquetil was well-known for toe down pedalling, a bit different from Lemond with his widely known/used "scrap the mud off the bottom of his shoes" ankling metaphor (as if on a doormat). I think all types of pedallers win the Tour.
Much the same as the high cadence craze that may never happened if Ullrich had stayed away from the Bakery and challenged Armstrong more rolling a much bigger gear. The folly of blindly following what the top riders do.
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  #886  
Old 01-09-13, 18:49
coapman coapman is offline
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Do you have pics of Anquetil doing this? It seems to me he would have to slide his saddle back further than normal and to achieve aero position would really close his hip angle. Which is not good either. And if he was starting his peak torque earlier he would be losing it earlier. The cranks are round after all with a limited arm.
just a thought.
There is pedalling footage available on a video (u-tube I think) not sure where, and if you find it you can check out the aeroness of his position. The starting and ending of peak torque does not matter, continuous max torque can be applied from 12 to 3 o'c in a powerful pedalling stroke that extends from 11 to 5 o'c. The cranks may be round but it is surprising what muscles can do when given sensible objectives.
  #887  
Old 01-09-13, 18:56
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There is pedalling footage available on a video (u-tube I think) not sure where, and if you find it you can check out the aeroness of his position. The starting and ending of peak torque does not matter, continuous max torque can be applied from 12 to 3 o'c in a powerful pedalling stroke that extends from 11 to 5 o'c. The cranks may be round but it is surprising what muscles can do when given sensible objectives.
What a vivid imagination you have. Amazing that in 30+ years of the technology being available to test your delusions you haven't done so.
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  #888  
Old 01-09-13, 23:23
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Here is a study out of Norway that sort of kicks that notion into the garbage can,


To generate power evenly around the whole pedal revolution may be an important energy-saving trait."

What is your understanding of this last sentence. How does one generate power evenly around the whole pedal revolution.
  #889  
Old 01-10-13, 00:00
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
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What is your understanding of this last sentence. How does one generate power evenly around the whole pedal revolution.
One has to separate power "generation" from muscle contraction from pedal forces. All power is generated by the muscles so one needs to look at the work done by the muscles when looking at power generation and efficiency. Since pedal forces on the upstroke seem to do no work (or even negative work) it would seem those muscles are doing no work when, in fact, they are increasing the potential energy of the leg and doing work that is later returned as power later when the leg comes down. And, people get confused thinking that those large forces on the downstroke are all coming from muscle "pushing" when, in fact, a large amount of that "power" is coming from the work done on the upstroke. I think that is the intent of that sentence.

While I doubt that a completely even power generation around the entire circle will be found to be most efficient it certainly is believable that a "more even" power generation is better than what most do now.
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  #890  
Old 01-10-13, 00:45
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Originally Posted by FrankDay;479744 Here is [URL="http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/ab16ff645e62f79/38fbda3cc22ac237?q=powercranks+final+report"
Phil's final report[/URL] to the group:





2/ Modification of ones pedal stroke with increased pull-up tends to
diminish the magnitude of the downstroke. Someone actually reported
that they deteriorated overall after using the Cranks.
This is noticeable when climbing out of the saddle or trying to
accelerate quickly with a pedal stomp. What I did to counteract this was to
do a few 10 minute sessions of climbing a week using my quads only to
maintain their power and strength.

)

This is what I have always claimed, the more you pull up, the less you are able to push down and there is the proof. This man had to do extra sessions to maintain his starting power and strength.
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