Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach - Page 8 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 01-09-13, 19:30
Netserk's Avatar
Netserk Netserk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 11,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
So what do people actually want here, because there seems to be some considerable confusion on this forum.

On the one hand, you have people doing their best to point out any possible Sky employee with some kind of skeleton in their closet, willing that it hits the headlines, but then critiscising the action taken by Sky against team members who get exposed. This is contradictory.

Now don't get me wrong, the accusation that Leinders may have been employed to provide doping assistance is reasonable, although it is far from a given. That staffers such as Sean Yates and Shane Sutton doped during their careers is neither here nor there.

Why were you all not shouting and screaming about Vaughters doping, and calling for his downfall in the years that he was acting as a team director prior to his confession?
No it isn't
__________________
Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Landis
Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider.
Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 01-09-13, 19:44
orbeas orbeas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 194
Default Shane Sutton

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbins View Post
He's not Brailsfords bodyguard, I think that title belongs to Fran Millar

Which races did he win doped?
Think the 'Mail on Sunday' has a list of the races from the riders who he cheated out of prize money -race bonus- and future better contracts..

Wasn't he asked to leave the 1988 Tour of Ireland by an Irish Official called Pat, when he tried to pass off somebody else's urine at a dope test ???
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 01-09-13, 19:50
Tom375's Avatar
Tom375 Tom375 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbeas View Post
Think the 'Mail on Sunday' has a list of the races from the riders who he cheated out of prize money -race bonus- and future better contracts..

Wasn't he asked to leave the 1988 Tour of Ireland by an Irish Official called Pat, when he tried to pass off somebody else's urine at a dope test ???


Really? - got a link for that?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 01-09-13, 20:19
thehog's Avatar
thehog thehog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace and Gromit View Post
This depends on the purpose of Sky's actions.

Sky's management (or most likely News International's lawyers) want to be able disassociate themselves from any riders or team-members found to have been doping in the past. The new "Zero Tolerance Policy" gives dodgy employees the chance to fess up and leave on good terms or get sacked in future.

Sky can then clear demonstrate they took doping seriously post-USADA, with subsequent relevations clearly the responsibility of the employees concerned if they signed the document knowing they had skeletons in the cupboard. As Sky can't question employees under oath, this is realistically all they can do.

I don't think Sky is bothered about clean cycling per se or the Clinic and other such forums; they are concerned about wider public opinion in the UK should something emerge in the future. My guess is that public opinion will accept that an employee whose dodgy past emerges after they were given the chance to "do the decent thing" is not Sky's fault. Particularly if they happen to be foreign.

There's a huge amount of goodwill in the UK towards Sir Brad and Sir Dave, and a very strong view that Sky, GB, Wiggo etc are clean. This goodwill/view will only be compromised if one of the current riders/senior managements gets busted for / seriously implicated in a recent offence (or Sir Brad turns into John Terry). Until this good will is eroded, internet chatter, even if well-founded, will most likely be dismissed as conspiracy theories/jealousy.

I'm no fortune teller, mind you. The Daily Mail may out Wiggo tomorrow, with pictures of him simultaneously taking EPO and sh*gging Chris Froome's other half!
The problem is not now. Its 3-5 years from now.

When Jullich doesnít get another job and Porte gets busted and does a tell all, heíll tell the world the role Jullich played at Sky.

Jullich with a 2 year NDA, bitter, angry and twisted will also tell all about Porte, Wiggins, Froome and Sky.

Thatís what cycling does. It tries to suppress to doping stories two years later. But they always bubble to the top.

USPS, T-Mobile, Kelme, Rabobank etc. etc. etc. Ė all of them came out in the end.

It just takes one guy to go down and then dominos fall.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 01-09-13, 20:24
Joachim Joachim is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 531
Default

Yes, and there is every chance it won't be anything like as dramatic as your speculations
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 01-09-13, 20:40
DirtyWorks's Avatar
DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Now don't get me wrong, the accusation that Leinders may have been employed to provide doping assistance is reasonable, although it is far from a given.
Let me get this straight. Did they hire Lienders just to hear his cool accent? If not for doping, then why bother at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
That staffers such as Sean Yates and Shane Sutton doped during their careers is neither here nor there.
I'm confused. I need an explanation how one simply disregards the fact a team that works in a doping sport DID NOT hire clean staff for 2012 and earlier? They had experienced dopers on staff and it's not material to anything? How is that possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Why were you all not shouting and screaming about Vaughters doping, and calling for his downfall in the years that he was acting as a team director prior to his confession?
Some were. Your swift revision to history to make it fit your case is noted.
__________________
Tammy Thomas is writing a book about her athletic career and is asking for funding.

http://www.gofundme.com/a4mlho

https://twitter.com/FitnessLawyer

This is a good time for her to tell her story.

Last edited by red_flanders; 01-09-13 at 21:38.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 01-09-13, 20:47
DirtyWorks's Avatar
DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
The problem is not now. Its 3-5 years from now.

When Jullich doesnít get another job and Porte gets busted and does a tell all, heíll tell the world the role Jullich played at Sky.

Jullich with a 2 year NDA, bitter, angry and twisted will also tell all about Porte, Wiggins, Froome and Sky.
Presumably, he can do it from the U.S. where the terms of his contract don't apply. But, first he's got to get totally shut out of work inside pro cycling.
__________________
Tammy Thomas is writing a book about her athletic career and is asking for funding.

http://www.gofundme.com/a4mlho

https://twitter.com/FitnessLawyer

This is a good time for her to tell her story.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 01-09-13, 20:49
MatParker117 MatParker117 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
The problem is not now. Its 3-5 years from now.

When Jullich doesnít get another job and Porte gets busted and does a tell all, heíll tell the world the role Jullich played at Sky.

Jullich with a 2 year NDA, bitter, angry and twisted will also tell all about Porte, Wiggins, Froome and Sky.

Thatís what cycling does. It tries to suppress to doping stories two years later. But they always bubble to the top.

USPS, T-Mobile, Kelme, Rabobank etc. etc. etc. Ė all of them came out in the end.

It just takes one guy to go down and then dominos fall.
NDA's are usually at least five years in length fyi.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 01-09-13, 20:52
Joachim Joachim is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 531
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
Let me get this straight. Did they hire Lienders just to hear his cool accent? If not for doping, then why bother at all?
How much do you know about the demands on and the skillset required of an effective team doctor? I'm not asking for a speculation, I'm asking for what you know.

Quote:
Again, what would be the point otherwise?
Excellent coaching skills and a dedicated guy, in Suttons case. Yates is a very experienced racer and makes for a good guy to read the race and call tactics on the day.

Besides which, their experience of doping whilst racing is irrelevant. What is the value of doping knowledge which is two decades out of date?

Besides, apply your 'otherwise what is the point' argument to Vaughters. What is the point of having an ex-doper as a DS?

Last edited by red_flanders; 01-09-13 at 21:39.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 01-09-13, 20:53
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
The problem is not now. Its 3-5 years from now.

When Jullich doesnít get another job and Porte gets busted and does a tell all, heíll tell the world the role Jullich played at Sky.
This presupposes, of course, that there is something dodgy going on now, or at least something dodgy that Jullich knows about. Life would be very simple if we actually knew this to be the case rather than suspecting it!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.