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  #6391  
Old 01-16-13, 21:18
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Originally Posted by rhubroma View Post
No, not through any gun assured means. Although we could just as well ask ourselves what it also means to contemplate not using deadly force, no? I don't perceive Americans' not willing to contemplate the use of deadly force as frankly being something of concern here. Perhaps it's just part and parcel to growing up in a country that ingrains a wholly positive notion of self-defense and individual survival, as being among the highest civic values.

Personally what is rather unappealing to me is the all too facile recourse to a contemplation of deadly force that seems to dramatically typify today’s US society, as if an obsession, or fantasy, or demonstration of individual preparation; that's been converted into a kultur through a number of commercial, entertainment and pedagogical outlets. Values like restraint, measure and proportion, or a state of non-conflict, on the other hand, are equated with weakness, never civility; while the actual culture thus created has been reinforced through a number of market and social praxis under the nation's rather perverse (from my way of thinking) romance with firearms. I think this is a significant problem (also for the high levels of violence): namely, the mass diffusion of a mentality that promotes artificially enhanced potency as a sign of individual “empowerment” and “liberty,” which operates on multiple levels and which is a defining element in the forma mentis of a large portion of Americana. It's something to applaud when the bad guys get taken out by a housewife, though not condemned at the level of artificial enhancement itself when turned against a movie theater or school.

Here is a case, however, for which “those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword,” becomes a self-inflicted reality.

I think its time for that glass of red wine now...
rhubroma you are way smart for this or for me to have a discussion with. Anyhow I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or putting me down.

My point about the use of deadly force is that deadly force should be the last resort even in a police officers SOP. When a civilian uses deadly force they cross the line in my opinion. In the example of the intruder with a spade or shovel it seems to me that something else besides 3 shots fired at center mast would have been appropriate. Just my opinion.

Anyhow I feel all weak and **** now that I have posted that... I must be turning into a ***** or a democrat?
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  #6392  
Old 01-16-13, 21:33
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Maybe people keep mentioning it because time and time again when mass shootings happen, the people turn out to have mental problems a bit worse than simple depression.

Yeah, I feel a so much safer now that the TSA is worried about people taking shampoo on a plane. Almost as much safer as I feel about the government clamping down on the Canadian border while the Mexican border is a free for all. Thanks hysterical people. You are an inspiration to us all.
This ducks the question though. Scott has zero insight into how American society might began to approach the problem of deep seated and (comparatively) wide-spread mental illness. How about you?

TSA is strictly about domestic discipline; has nothing to do with the threat of foreign grown terrorism.
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Old 01-16-13, 21:45
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Changed the title of the thread. Please try to post accordingly as much as possible.

As before, any and all new political threads will be merged into this (or the World Politics) thread.
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  #6394  
Old 01-16-13, 21:46
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This ducks the question though. Scott has zero insight into how American society might began to approach the problem of deep seated and (comparatively) wide-spread mental illness. How about you?

TSA is strictly about domestic discipline; has nothing to do with the threat of foreign grown terrorism.
Pffftt. I've been told gun control is the answer.
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  #6395  
Old 01-16-13, 21:48
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Maybe people keep mentioning it because time and time again when mass shootings happen, the people turn out to have mental problems a bit worse than simple depression.
Severe depression has been cited as a factor in almost half of the mass shootings in the past century, but that wasn't the point - the point was that it's next to impossible to predict beforehand who's about to go on a shooting rampage and who isn't. Easy as pie in hindsight, not so much beforehand.

But besides all that, it's also based on the argument that the US has more mentally ill people than anywhere else in the world, considering that such incidents occur so much more frequently in the US on a per capita basis. So do we just have that many more crazies per capita than say Canada or is it more likely simply because our crazies have much easier access to serious firepower than do the Canadian (or UK or wherever) crazies? I'm guessing the latter.

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Maybe we should just get rid of all rights. After all, you never can tell who might snap. We cannot trust anyone with anything.
All anyone is talking about is some restrictions on guns. Same as we do with SAMs, bazookas, tanks, nerve gas, yelling fire in a crowded theater, whatever.

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Yeah, I feel a so much safer now that the TSA is worried about people taking shampoo on a plane.
Again, why are guns banned from planes, if more guns make everyone safer?
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  #6396  
Old 01-16-13, 21:49
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
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Pffftt. I've been told gun control is the answer.
Not by me. By the way, you see Wal-Mart's new hiring policy? Now that's a good time, should crystallize several issues from this thread in one fell swoop.
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  #6397  
Old 01-16-13, 21:54
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Pffftt. I've been told gun control is the answer.
No, you've been told that it's one of the factors that needs to be addressed to lower gun violence, along with several other factors. I even made a super easy handy-dandy chart for you and still you just repeat the echo chamber talking points. Death panels.
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  #6398  
Old 01-16-13, 21:57
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Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
Severe depression has been cited as a factor in almost half of the mass shootings in the past century, but that wasn't the point - the point was that it's next to impossible to predict beforehand who's about to go on a shooting rampage and who isn't. Easy as pie in hindsight, not so much beforehand.

But besides all that, it's also based on the argument that the US has more mentally ill people than anywhere else in the world, considering that such incidents occur so much more frequently in the US on a per capita basis. So do we just have that many more crazies per capita than say Canada or is it more likely simply because our crazies have much easier access to serious firepower than do the Canadian (or UK or wherever) crazies? I'm guessing the latter.

All anyone is talking about is some restrictions on guns. Same as we do with SAMs, bazookas, tanks, nerve gas, yelling fire in a crowded theater, whatever.

Again, why are guns banned from planes, if more guns make everyone safer?
Gun discharge, intentional or unintentional could potentially bring the plane down. What did I win?

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All anyone is talking about is some restrictions on guns
For now...
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Old 01-16-13, 22:00
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No, you've been told that it's one of the factors that needs to be addressed to lower gun violence, along with several other factors. I even made a super easy handy-dandy chart for you and still you just repeat the echo chamber talking points. Death panels.
Get it straight... Independent Payment Advisory Boards.
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Old 01-16-13, 22:33
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Gun discharge, intentional or unintentional could potentially bring the plane down. What did I win?
But risks are part of everyday life and airport security infringes on personal liberty, so what's the justification for all that security and stuff, exactly? Just let everyone board a plane without having to pass through any kind of security and if lots of people are periodically killed, well, them's the risk.

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For now...
Oh I'm all for repealing the 2nd Amendment and gun registries. Not likely that either will ever come to pass, though. That's a shame.

Besides, when have conservative Rs ever paid attention to the Constitution?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ns.php?ref=fpb

Last edited by VeloCity; 01-16-13 at 22:51.
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