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  #6411  
Old 01-17-13, 18:01
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2nd Amendment? OK, let's keep it, on the condition that gun owners actually adhere to what it says.

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Ok here is an idea for al those that interpret the Second Amendment to allow anyone any firearm anytime anywhere. Everyone knows the 27 words-the most commonly recited part is 'the right of the citizen to bear arms shall not be infringed'. The rest happens to include the words 'a well regulated militia'. So if you want to have a gun, you need to participate 2 days, twice a month in the militia-this will be a state run entity (leaving the tyranny of the feds out of it) where participation is determined with appropriate background checks, and is run by a trained militiaman appointed by the Governor and approved by the state legislature. All participants can have their approved firearms after significant training. If you want to exercise your right to bear arms, then you must be part of the well regulated militia. There is your second amendment-anyone got a problem with that?
Nope, no problem with it at all.

Hell, even John Howard understands, as Scott would say, the real problem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/op...6QTG6M3OvoiBcA

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The fundamental problem was the ready availability of high-powered weapons, which enabled people to convert their murderous impulses into mass killing. Certainly, shortcomings in treating mental illness and the harmful influence of violent video games and movies may have played a role. But nothing trumps easy access to a gun. It is easier to kill 10 people with a gun than with a knife.

In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996.

Last edited by VeloCity; 01-17-13 at 19:05.
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  #6412  
Old 01-17-13, 18:29
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Sometimes the truth slips out.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ty.php?ref=fpb

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Call it a gaffe: a slip-up that accidentally reveals the truth.

A recent memo by the Republican State Leadership Committee emphasizes the party’s 2010 victories in state legislatures as central to the House GOP retaining its majority in the 2012 elections.

The reason? Redistricting — or more precisely, gerrymandering.

In the memo — titled “How a Strategy of Targeting State Legislative Races in 2010 Led to a Republican U.S. House Majority in 2013” — RSLC boasts that it “raised more than $30 million in 2009-2010, and invested $18 million after Labor Day 2010 alone” to ensure statehouse victories in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.

“The rationale was straightforward,” reads the memo. “Controlling the redistricting process in these states would have the greatest impact on determining how both state legislative and congressional district boundaries would be drawn. Drawing new district lines in states with the most redistricting activity presented the opportunity to solidify conservative policymaking at the state level and maintain a Republican stronghold in the U.S. House of Representatives for the next decade.”
Net up: rejig the electoral college in their favor. Working on that:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172191...icans-can-win#

Maybe instead of trying to rig the vote Rs should be concentrating on formulating policies that attract more voters?
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  #6413  
Old 01-17-13, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
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The fundamental problem was the ready availability of high-powered weapons, which enabled people to convert their murderous impulses into mass killing. Certainly, shortcomings in treating mental illness and the harmful influence of violent video games and movies may have played a role. But nothing trumps easy access to a gun. It is easier to kill 10 people with a gun than with a knife.

In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996.
Funny thing is that Australia's violent crime rate dropped after the ban but the U.S., which did not ban guns, had a crime rate drop that was even larger. Damn those inconvenient facts.
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  #6414  
Old 01-17-13, 22:05
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Funny thing is that Australia's violent crime rate dropped after the ban but the U.S., which did not ban guns, had a crime rate drop that was even larger. Damn those inconvenient facts.
Compare Australia's violent crime rate to the US's.

US - 5.0 per 100,000
Australia - 1.2 per 100,000

Damn those inconvenient facts.
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  #6415  
Old 01-17-13, 22:38
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Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
Compare Australia's violent crime rate to the US's.

US - 5.0 per 100,000
Australia - 1.2 per 100,000

Damn those inconvenient facts.
U.S. homicide rate per 100K:
1991 = 9.8
2010 = 4.8

Australia:
1991 = 1.6
2010 = ~1.2

U.S. homicide rate decreased to 49% of its 1991 rate. Australia, after banning guns, only had a decrease to 75% of its 1991 rate.

Damn those inconvenient facts.

As much as the libs want to use scaremongering push their agenda, the crime rate in the U.S. has been falling drastically. Meanwhile, state after state have made concealed carry permits readily available to anyone who wants one. The hysterical Democrats predictions of wild west-like shootouts have proven about as accurate as Phil Ligget identifying riders.
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  #6416  
Old 01-17-13, 22:55
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A whole bunch of brilliant links Velo, thanks! Do you remember quite some months ago, you posted an excellent link to a black view of the Second Amendment. Any chance you could find the link again?
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  #6417  
Old 01-17-13, 23:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
U.S. homicide rate per 100K:
1991 = 9.8
2010 = 4.8

Australia:
1991 = 1.6
2010 = ~1.2

U.S. homicide rate decreased to 49% of its 1991 rate. Australia, after banning guns, only had a decrease to 75% of its 1991 rate.

Damn those inconvenient facts.

As much as the libs want to use scaremongering push their agenda, the crime rate in the U.S. has been falling drastically. Meanwhile, state after state have made concealed carry permits readily available to anyone who wants one. The hysterical Democrats predictions of wild west-like shootouts have proven about as accurate as Phil Ligget identifying riders.
What, you've decided to stop trolling with Depardieu and subway crazies and actually be serious - insofar as you're capable of that?

Her's some more damn inconvenient facts for you to show you just how wonderful the US has been at reducing violent gun crime.

Murder rates per 100k 2011

Baltimore - 31.3
Philly - 21.2
D.C. - 17.5
Boston - 10.1
NYC - 6.3
Holland (16.5 million people) - 1.0

Amsterdam compares in size to Baltimore. 2012 murders -

Baltimore - 198 (as of mid November)
Amsterdam - 12

Put that in your gun loving pipe and suck on it.
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  #6418  
Old 01-17-13, 23:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
U.S. homicide rate per 100K:
1991 = 9.8
2010 = 4.8

Australia:
1991 = 1.6
2010 = ~1.2

U.S. homicide rate decreased to 49% of its 1991 rate. Australia, after banning guns, only had a decrease to 75% of its 1991 rate.

As much as the libs want to use scaremongering push their agenda, the crime rate in the U.S. has been falling drastically. Meanwhile, state after state have made concealed carry permits readily available to anyone who wants one. The hysterical Democrats predictions of wild west-like shootouts have proven about as accurate as Phil Ligget identifying riders.
Course you conveniently leave out the rapid upswing in homicide rates from 1960-1990 - let's extend that graph out a bit more:

http://madeinamericathebook.files.wo...1900-20062.jpg

...so homicide rates go up and down over the decades, and no one really knows why.

You also fail to note that those figures are total homicides, not gun-related homicides. So let's parse that out.

http://mindandmarket.blogspot.com/20...ide-rates.html Fig 2
http://mindandmarket.blogspot.com/20...ide-rates.html Fig 3

...and that gun ownership per household is actually declining; what's driving the overall ownership rate is a smaller subset of gun owners buying more guns:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politi...ing/index.html

But even at a trough, even ignoring all of the decadal trends etc, we still have nearly 5 times the homicide rate of Australia. Five times as many people killed. Why's that? They have knives, blunt instruments, poverty, criminals, gangs, crazies, domestic disputes. What's the difference, then, that would result in the US having 5 times the death toll? Are Americans just naturally more violence-prone than Australians? Or could it be that we just have far better access to guns? Well, lessee...

http://www.neontommy.com/sites/defau...ser717/gc5.png

Huh. Quite the correlation there. And damn those inconvenient facts.

Last edited by VeloCity; 01-17-13 at 23:17.
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  #6419  
Old 01-17-13, 23:12
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patricknd patricknd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsterhammer View Post
What, you've decided to stop trolling with Depardieu and subway crazies and actually be serious - insofar as you're capable of that?

Her's some more damn inconvenient facts for you to show you just how wonderful the US has been at reducing violent gun crime.

Murder rates per 100k 2011

Baltimore - 31.3
Philly - 21.2
D.C. - 17.5
Boston - 10.1
NYC - 6.3
Holland (16.5 million people) - 1.0

Amsterdam compares in size to Baltimore. 2012 murders -

Baltimore - 198 (as of mid November)
Amsterdam - 12

Put that in your gun loving pipe and suck on it.
but in amsterdam they're too stoned to be violent.
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  #6420  
Old 01-17-13, 23:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
But even at a trough, even ignoring all of that stuff, we still have nearly 5 times the homicide rate of Australia.
Nope. We only have four times the murder rate. In the early nineties we had six times their rate. So even though they banned guns and we did not, we had a much greater decrease in violent crime. Damn those inconvenient facts.

Spike in crime during the eighties? So what? Reagan replaced the criminal apologists, you know, libs like rhubroma who cry about home invaders, and concentrated on law enforcement. Funny enough The Gipper took the fight to the criminals, not law abiding citizens. The country is now reaping the benefits (if you ignore the mentally ill he turned out onto the streets).
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