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  #921  
Old 01-20-13, 10:37
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Originally Posted by Alex Simmons/RST View Post
18 minutes short of 3 days.

My money was on a week, but you couldn't even last three days
I had him at 2 days.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #922  
Old 01-20-13, 10:47
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Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
Cool. Proves to me that "asking" someone to change technique without training them (and the necessary muscles) to use that technique naturally is most likely to result in a reduced efficiency. Go up and read Phil Holman's report again.
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Yeah some Muppet over a study published in a well respected journal.

Quote:
Notice he says
He did not report seeing this improvement as soon as he started to think about pulling up. In fact, most see the exact opposite because the necessary muscles are totally under trained for this effort. Most people when they transition to PowerCranks see a huge drop off in ability. It is not until they have many miles under their belt using the new technique that they return to their former ability and then start to see improvement. That is what Phil Holman reported. That is what essentially every user reports.
Come now Frank, plenty of people have spoken out that the Gimmickcranks are a waste of time and they did not improve. Are you booked in with Oprah for next Friday?

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So such studies as posted by Martin are worthless when it comes to assessing different pedaling techniques. I would expect every rider to test best using their natural technique over a strange technique they are asked (and totally untrained for) to do. You would think Martin was experienced enough in as a sports scientist to understand this. I guess not.
Ha ha, see my signature. Learn the ways of the Snake Oil Salesman. Ad hominem. Jim Martin is a very well respected researcher, just don't get him too would up over applied sport science or he will unfriend you from Facebook

Quote:
Edit: The authors report that effectiveness improves but efficiency drops when riders are asked to make this change. But, the real question is what happens to "pedaling effectiveness" and "efficiency" (and power) as riders train themselves to ride in this different fashion for long periods. Until that question is answered (for this and other pedaling techniques) the question as to which technique is best or better than another remains unresolved by science.
Well we see the results from all the well performed and published in well regarded journals, Gimmickcrank studies that show no advantage after a period of training that leads to a change in pedalling technique (Bohm, 2008 and Fernandez-Pena, 2009).
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #923  
Old 01-20-13, 10:58
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Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post

Edit: The authors report that effectiveness improves but efficiency drops when riders are asked to make this change. But, the real question is what happens to "pedaling effectiveness" and "efficiency" (and power) as riders train themselves to ride in this different fashion for long periods. Until that question is answered (for this and other pedaling techniques) the question as to which technique is best or better than another remains unresolved by science.

What exactly is meant by pedalling effectiveness and pedalling efficiency ?
  #924  
Old 01-20-13, 11:45
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What exactly is meant by pedalling effectiveness and pedalling efficiency ?
Ummmmmm, aren't they the things you are trying to tell us your style of pedalling improves? How can you argue for improved pedalling and not know what effectiveness and efficiency means.

ps. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #925  
Old 01-20-13, 12:04
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Noel, I see Jim Martin has very generously offered to test your style of pedalling in the Lab in the UK

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.c...;so=ASC;mh=25;

Quote:
Re: Awful pedal stroke [perfection] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
perfection wrote:I can apply continuous max torque through 12, 1 ,2, and 3 o'c, returning to normal torque through 4 and 5.
Please stop by my lab at University of Utah any time you're in the area so we can document your miraculous pedaling technique.
EDIT: I forgot that we've had this conversation before. You're in UK right? I offered to set up testing for you at Tom Korff's lab at Brunel University in London but you said you don't ever get to London. I could also ask Paul Barratt to have look. He's the biomechanist for British Cycling in Manchester. Maybe that's closer to you. I'm sure they'd like see your technique in action as well.
Cheers,
Jim
Well, this is great news. Now you can prove your theory once and for all. I'm surprised that Frank hasn't taken the opportunity to do the same in California.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #926  
Old 01-20-13, 12:22
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Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Ummmmmm, aren't they the things you are trying to tell us your style of pedalling improves? How can you argue for improved pedalling and not know what effectiveness and efficiency means.

ps. Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


I have my own definitions for pedalling effectiveness and efficiency but when the word 'mechanical' efficiency is added, it gets confusing. Maybe you will enlighten everyone with your coaching definition of all three.
  #927  
Old 01-20-13, 12:31
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Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
Noel, I see Jim Martin has very generously offered to test your style of pedalling in the Lab in the UK

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.c...;so=ASC;mh=25;



Well, this is great news. Now you can prove your theory once and for all. I'm surprised that Frank hasn't taken the opportunity to do the same in California.

I have nothing to prove, it's fact. Unlike Frank I am not in this for money. I don't like the inconvenience of travelling, This semi circular technique can be made available to anyone for testing provided they are prepared to do the travelling.
  #928  
Old 01-20-13, 12:39
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Originally Posted by coapman View Post
can be made available to anyone for testing provided they are prepared to do the travelling.
As long as it is not you

Pathetic
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #929  
Old 01-20-13, 12:53
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Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
As long as it is not you

Pathetic


Brimbros should be able to supply the proof without anyone having to travel. Still waiting for your 3 definitions.
  #930  
Old 01-20-13, 13:20
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Brimbros should be able to supply the proof without anyone having to travel.
Ha ha, a product which still doesn't have a release date over an offer to meet with a sport scientist and test your delusion.

Pathetic.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
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