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  #121  
Old 01-22-13, 20:27
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roundabout roundabout is offline
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
What does this have to do with anything I said?

I'd have no trouble accepting that Indurain was an EPO pioneer - in fact, I'm arguing right now for that possibility at another forum. But the theory does have problems that should be addressed.
That it was possible to dope to varying degrees and be very successful both pre-Gewiss and after without having much underlying talent.

Except perhaps in responding to dope.
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  #122  
Old 01-22-13, 20:36
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
What does this have to do with anything I said?

I'd have no trouble accepting that Indurain was an EPO pioneer - in fact, I'm arguing right now for that possibility at another forum. But the theory does have problems that should be addressed.
You are completely right, but the first part of what you said earlier can be explained by what we know already.

From my amateurish understanding, taking only EPO indiscriminately does not weild optimal results, but it's better to supplement it with other substances, iron or whatever. Maybe it took Conconi, Ferrari, et al a couple years to figure out the ideal dosage for certain points in pre-Tour training while adding certain other substances to unleash the drug's full potential.
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  #123  
Old 01-22-13, 20:44
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Wikipedia reports that Indurain began consulting Conconi from 87, so it's certainly possible that he started using EPO from at least 89 onwards.
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  #124  
Old 01-22-13, 23:18
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Originally Posted by Oldman View Post
While he was the best climber of the time there are few that felt elite amateurs in Italy were running on panniagua.
Hrotha already answered this.
And it's pane e acqua anyway.
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  #125  
Old 02-26-13, 07:58
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Originally Posted by the asian View Post
Wikipedia reports that Indurain began consulting Conconi from 87, so it's certainly possible that he started using EPO from at least 89 onwards.
http://nos.nl/video/478255-conconi-l...pingtrucs.html

A bit late but hell, let's be journalistic after 25 years.
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  #126  
Old 02-26-13, 08:45
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Originally Posted by Fearless Greg Lemond View Post
http://nos.nl/video/478255-conconi-l...pingtrucs.html

A bit late but hell, let's be journalistic after 25 years.
conconi's test.
marginal gains.
not much has changed.
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  #127  
Old 02-26-13, 08:51
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Originally Posted by Fearless Greg Lemond View Post
http://nos.nl/video/478255-conconi-l...pingtrucs.html

A bit late but hell, let's be journalistic after 25 years.
+1. jawdropping ignorance.

This new trend to start digging into the past (Conconi, Ferrari, Armstrong) seems nothing more than an easy excuse for journalists to ignore the problems of cycling at present.
I hope NOS prove me wrong and do a broadcasting like that on Leinders next week.
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  #128  
Old 02-26-13, 09:08
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
+1. jawdropping ignorance.

This new trend to start digging into the past (Conconi, Ferrari, Armstrong) seems nothing more than an easy excuse for journalists to ignore the problems of cycling at present.
I hope NOS prove me wrong and do a broadcasting like that on Leinders next week.
I disagree: I think this investigating helps understand the scale of the problem.
Of course, its easier to get people to talk about their past rather than their present, but everyone now knows that it WILL come out , sooner or later, whereas in the past, Omerta ruled.
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  #129  
Old 02-26-13, 09:24
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
I disagree: I think this investigating helps understand the scale of the problem.
Of course, its easier to get people to talk about their past rather than their present, but everyone now knows that it WILL come out , sooner or later, whereas in the past, Omerta ruled.
I'm not sure if we disagree.
Of course broadcoasting this stuff about conconi/ferrari/indurain now is a very good thing, better than nothing.

Yet I see a great danger of committing the same mistakes as those that were committed back then. Many people/journo's are still incredibly eager to pretend that these were problems of the past, and that now everything is better.

Look at Armstrong, he's being scapegoated by a peloton of riders, DSs, journo's, and policy makers, all looking to sell the message that it's so much better now. I'd warn NOS for not doing the same with Conconi/Ferrari (i.e. pretending they're part of the past, whilst ignoring that other doping docs have taken their place).

Scapegoating the past while ignoring the plain fact that cycling continues to be rotten to the core...

I hope NOS will engage critically with cycling's problems at present, in addition to informing us about the past.

Last edited by sniper; 02-26-13 at 09:31.
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  #130  
Old 02-26-13, 10:38
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
I'm not sure if we disagree.
Of course broadcoasting this stuff about conconi/ferrari/indurain now is a very good thing, better than nothing.

Yet I see a great danger of committing the same mistakes as those that were committed back then. Many people/journo's are still incredibly eager to pretend that these were problems of the past, and that now everything is better.

Look at Armstrong, he's being scapegoated by a peloton of riders, DSs, journo's, and policy makers, all looking to sell the message that it's so much better now. I'd warn NOS for not doing the same with Conconi/Ferrari (i.e. pretending they're part of the past, whilst ignoring that other doping docs have taken their place).

Scapegoating the past while ignoring the plain fact that cycling continues to be rotten to the core...

I hope NOS will engage critically with cycling's problems at present, in addition to informing us about the past.

Thanks...what I really wanted to say is, what is NOS?
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