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  #4811  
Old 01-23-13, 15:17
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Carols Carols is offline
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Originally Posted by rhubroma View Post
If any racer of this generation has the capacity to do the Giro-Tour double, then it's got to be AC.
Yes, can't thing of anyone else that could pull it off right now.

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Nobody expected to witness the extra-terrestrial Wiggins (I don't care what anybody says - from Paris Nice through the Tour he was unbeatable) we had last year, and I think the Briton probably wants to assume the role of Re from the Spaniard.
Indeed, who could have foreseen that???? Wiggo has a Long way to go to assume the role though.


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Personally a time trial man, no matter how strong and impressive, shouldn't be put on the same plane as one who can explode a race in uneven terrain, tearing the field to shreds and leaving everybody in the dust. For this reason Wiggins, more than Contador, needs a most favorable course to achieve success.
Totally Agree!!!!

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On that account, Alberto will undoubtedly be wanting to put Wiggins in his place. There would be no better way to do this than by beating him at the Giro and the Tour successively.
He can put Wiggo in his place before the Giro in T/A.


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If it were possible for Indurain and Pantani in the modern era, then it must be possible for an athlete today. The experts keep doubting this, however, it isnít as if in the 90ís things were all that different.
They had advantages not possible today in the current climate.
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  #4812  
Old 01-23-13, 15:22
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I don't think Wiggins gives him any more of a test on that parcours than Nibbles et al did in 2011, save the one long TT. The question, in my mind, assuming he wins the Giro, will he have enough time to recover for the Tour. Given the last week of the Giro and the first week of the Tour (I believe there are a couple of mountain stages (I could be wrong)), I have my doubts.
Wiggins out rode Nibali this year in the Tour. Wiggins also will have a far superior team than Nibali and this was certainly a better version of Nibali than the 2011 Giro Nibali, who was beaten by Scarponi. So I would be very surprised if Wiggins puts up as little resistance as Nibali did in 2011 (or even for that matter Scarponi).
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  #4813  
Old 01-23-13, 15:26
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Speaking of the double - yes, it's big ask. It will be very demanding to race against 100% Wiggo. But when we speak about the Tour, I think there won't be a rider prepared like Wiggins. It's not rational to expect from Andy to turn to his best form already this year, and I don't rate Froome so high despite his remarkable showings in previous two seasons. I've already written about his lack of racing sense, and designating him for the team's Tour leader will carry additional pressure, especially if things don't develop according to Sky's expectations in the Giro.
The point is - Contador can win the Tour with worse form than that in the Giro this year. And that's why I think this season is good for the double.
Sorry, but you say it will be very demanding to race against Wiggo?
And then you say you do not rate Froome. Froome was miles ahead of Wiggo in this year's Tour.

In terms of his designated leader role. He managed well enough in the Vuelta where he seemed fine in his role and seemed to be excelling until his fatigue kicked in and has now had valuable experience in that role. By the time that the Tour comes around he would have had even more experience.
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  #4814  
Old 01-23-13, 15:55
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Originally Posted by Froome19 View Post
Wiggins out rode Nibali this year in the Tour. Wiggins also will have a far superior team than Nibali and this was certainly a better version of Nibali than the 2011 Giro Nibali, who was beaten by Scarponi. So I would be very surprised if Wiggins puts up as little resistance as Nibali did in 2011 (or even for that matter Scarponi).
He out rode Nibbles on a relatively light course. I don't see Wiggins doing better than Nibbles in the high mountains at the Giro. That's just my opinion. Wiggins could be the second coming of Indurain. We'll see this year....
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  #4815  
Old 01-23-13, 15:58
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He out rode Nibbles on a relatively light course. I don't see Wiggins doing better than Nibbles in the high mountains at the Giro. That's just my opinion. Wiggins could be the second coming of Indurain. We'll see this year....
Fair enough. What I saw was Wiggins out riding Nibali on close to every mountain stage(the limited ones there were) in the Tour, so I would say it is more logical to assume Wiggins can climb better than Nibali.
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  #4816  
Old 01-23-13, 16:26
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What I saw was Wiggins out riding Nibali on close to every mountain stage(the limited ones there were) in the Tour, so I would say it is more logical to assume Wiggins can climb better than Nibali.
Blasphemous. You're picking on the wrong crowd here, not good. On top of that, in the wrong thread.
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  #4817  
Old 01-23-13, 16:43
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I think it is what you make of it. Every GT is about the difficulty of the course and the talent of the riders who line up. It's not always a tough course and best riders.
Significant part of fans position the 2011 Giro like sort of an absolute. The best guys were not there. All the more so most people would agree Nibali was not prepared very well even by his then-standarts, but... who cares if it is so fascinating, right?
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Wiggins is being celebrated by many as a GT rider on par with Contador because
Parcours is a decoration of the race, its framework. A rider is beaten by other riders, not by parcours. Considering what we saw, there is minimum evidence to suppose those guys would have beaten Wiggins on a harder course (theoretically probable TdF course surely because they are never so difficult how the Giro course).
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he won on what I consider a weak TDF course, against what I consider a weak field. I don't begrudge them that.
He won with huge advantage. He did not grind out this. He rode the race, reveling his superiority. Doesn't it affect on your estimation of what was happening?

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I just disagree with their assessment of Wiggins' talent (I'm not dismissing him as a threat. I want to see him perform on a more challenging course, against more talented riders).
I agree, though talent is not always equal to the result.
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I don't think Wiggins gives him any more of a test on that parcours than Nibbles et al did in 2011
Wow, just wow. Why do you think so if Nibali had no terrain to gain any time, when Wiggins has a 55k TT, where he would definetely win not a few seconds and a mountain TT where I'd also bet on him 60 vs 40? What makes you think that Nibali is a better climber in general?
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Given the last week of the Giro and the first week of the Tour (I believe there are a couple of mountain stages (I could be wrong)), I have my doubts.
No matter how the giro will end, it would be a big leg-up for Schleck and Froome

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Froome hasn't demonstrated that he can handle the pressure of being team leader and certain not the amount of pressure that goes with being a team leader at the Tour.
Sure. He just didn't have possibility so far. He will demontrate this as ill luck would have it, don't worry.

Last edited by airstream; 01-23-13 at 17:04.
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  #4818  
Old 01-23-13, 16:44
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Angliru Angliru is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
Oh man, poor Froome will inevitably carry additional pressure whereas [apparently] Contador will go the Tour lightly without pressure.

Hilarious guys...
You conveniently ignore the experience factor. You have one rider that has been leading grand tour teams since almost 2007 and you have another who has exactly one full grand tour where he was the undisputed leader and never at either the Tour or the Giro. I think that gives one rider a decided advantage in the ability to deal with whatever circumstances/scenarios are thrown their way.
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  #4819  
Old 01-23-13, 16:46
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Originally Posted by Angliru View Post
You conveniently ignore the experience factor. You have one rider that has been leading grand tour teams since almost 2007 and you have another who has exactly one full grand tour where he was the undisputed leader and never at either the Tour or the Giro. I think that gives one rider a decided advantage in the ability to deal with whatever circumstances/scenarios are thrown their way.
You absolutize the experience factor as though it is manna. Everyone should win his first GT without winning experience or there are other ways out?

Though, dear Angliru, if you have to seriously rely on his experience, I sympathize with you. )
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  #4820  
Old 01-23-13, 16:51
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by Froome19 View Post
Wiggins out rode Nibali this year in the Tour. Wiggins also will have a far superior team than Nibali and this was certainly a better version of Nibali than the 2011 Giro Nibali, who was beaten by Scarponi. So I would be very surprised if Wiggins puts up as little resistance as Nibali did in 2011 (or even for that matter Scarponi).
in the timetrials yes, everywhere else no. besides nibali won;t be wiggins problem in the giro. there are far better climbers there
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