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  #12881  
Old 01-30-13, 20:32
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auscyclefan94 auscyclefan94 is offline
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Originally Posted by Caruut View Post
The problems you identify are not people classifying "left" and "right" wrongly, they are limitations of thinking about politics in terms of just two classifications. A word means what those hearing it (or likely to hear it) think it means. What you want it to mean is largely irrelevant. Whether you like it or not, economically speaking, the term "left" is taken to mean "higher tax, higher spending" and "right" the opposite. Socially speaking it has meant "more freedom" while "right" is again the opposite.

What people see themselves as is, again, largely irrelevant. I could go around saying "I am a chimpanzee", but that does not make me one if other people do not agree with me on what the word "chimpanzee" means. If everyone thought it meant "20-year-old who wears hipster glasses" then I would be right. If everyone thinks it means "a particular type of medium-sized black-haired ape native to the West-African jungle", then I am wrong. Left and right are limited, yes, but don't pretend they don't also exist.
Thanks Caruut, you probably explained the right-left paridigm a lot better than I do. The right-left spectrum also can be multi-dimensional and is too simplistic to delve into to all the different facets of politics.
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second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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  #12882  
Old 01-30-13, 21:01
RetroActive RetroActive is offline
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Originally Posted by Caruut View Post
The problems you identify are not people classifying "left" and "right" wrongly, they are limitations of thinking about politics in terms of just two classifications. A word means what those hearing it (or likely to hear it) think it means. What you want it to mean is largely irrelevant. Whether you like it or not, economically speaking, the term "left" is taken to mean "higher tax, higher spending" and "right" the opposite. Socially speaking it has meant "more freedom" while "right" is again the opposite.

What people see themselves as is, again, largely irrelevant. I could go around saying "I am a chimpanzee", but that does not make me one if other people do not agree with me on what the word "chimpanzee" means. If everyone thought it meant "20-year-old who wears hipster glasses" then I would be right. If everyone thinks it means "a particular type of medium-sized black-haired ape native to the West-African jungle", then I am wrong. Left and right are limited, yes, but don't pretend they don't also exist.
Interestingly, the most extreme "right", in our modern context, that has been implemented would be Fascism, the most "left" being Communism. A (the) most primary difference being who owns the means of production, private capital or the state. Both result in totalitarianism, they come full circle and the arguement turns to shades of grey, at least how we've seen these concepts expressed in the real world. Would you like an oligarchy or an oligarchy?
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  #12883  
Old 01-30-13, 21:05
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Interestingly, the most extreme "right", in our modern context, that has been implemented would be Fascism, the most "left" being Communism. A (the) most primary difference being who owns the means of production, private capital or the state. Both result in totalitarianism, they come full circle and the arguement turns to shades of grey, at least how we've seen these concepts expressed in the real world. Would you like an oligarchy or an oligarchy?
Fascism does not support capitalism or a free market, just like communism does not. They are so far around the political circle that they actually have some similarities.
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Originally Posted by diggercuz View Post
second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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  #12884  
Old 01-30-13, 21:24
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Fascism does not support capitalism or a free market, just like communism does not. They are so far around the political circle that they actually have some similarities.
You almost repeated me, we have no disagreement (yet).

Fascism
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

"Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners."

Found what I needed right away.

We could argue about terms all day communist/socialism, Marxist/Leninist, all the variations and nuances. In broad common understanding Fascism represents the far right, Communism the far left. The result for the common person isn't that different - screwed. Funny how that works.
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  #12885  
Old 01-31-13, 11:07
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Craig Thompson is facing 149 charges of fraud. If innocent, you really feel sorry for the guy considering that his career in politics is over. If guilty, then he is a manipulative man. I am leaning to the latter.
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second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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  #12886  
Old 01-31-13, 12:40
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If innocent he's probably still been involved in shady activities, amazing people with such a background want to become politicians.
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  #12887  
Old 01-31-13, 22:26
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Originally Posted by auscyclefan94 View Post
Craig Thompson is facing 149 charges of fraud. If innocent, you really feel sorry for the guy considering that his career in politics is over. If guilty, then he is a manipulative man. I am leaning to the latter.
More good news for the Liberals plus the Obeid corruption scandal in NSW. Might change the minds of a few fence sitters before the election.
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  #12888  
Old 02-01-13, 09:58
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More good news for the Liberals plus the Obeid corruption scandal in NSW. Might change the minds of a few fence sitters before the election.
I agree with Ferminal that innocent or not, the guy clearly is involved with some dodgy people doing some dodgy things. His lawyer, Chris McArdle, is a complete media *****. Today he is trying to sue Barry O'Farrell for making a completely simple and factual statement. It is good news for the Liberals but Abbott needs to be careful with his attacks on the Government when relating them to Thompson.
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second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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  #12889  
Old 02-01-13, 10:00
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Leader of the Senate and Minister for Science, Chris Evans, has resigned from the cabinet. The week is getting worse for Gillard.
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second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
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  #12890  
Old 02-01-13, 10:07
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Agreed and actually live in western sydney,but talking to people about politics and their alliance,s is a touchy issue and every since the Masogenist card was played i have had this sick in the stomach feeling.Just really worried what direction this country is heading,and what future/freedom my children will have?
Reading a vox pop in the paper today, it is amazing to read why people don't like Abbott or are not voting for him. It is either "I don't like him" or he "hasn't got any policies". The policies argument is complete bs. Secondly, what political party releases all policies outright before they have the budgetary figures? I do believe some people have been caught up in the ridiculous misogyny claims.
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