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  #6801  
Old 01-31-13, 20:54
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In about 30 or 40 years this place will be unrecognizable and by then I'll be in the ground or ****ting myself and won't care.
You're certainly optimistic. I give it 5-10 yrs. tops. War is looking inevitable from my perch, any 'ole time now actually.

You realize at current rates of population growth in 30-40 yrs. there will be 15+ billion people on the planet. Not going to happen.
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  #6802  
Old 01-31-13, 21:05
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You realize at current rates of population growth in 30-40 yrs. there will be 15+ billion people on the planet. Not going to happen.
Unmitigated climate change will take care of that. Probably more like a century or so, but it'll be far more effective than war.
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  #6803  
Old 01-31-13, 21:27
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Unmitigated climate change will take care of that. Probably more like a century or so, but it'll be far more effective than war.
If all you see are brushstrokes you're standing too close to the painting.
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  #6804  
Old 01-31-13, 21:40
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You like(d) a mythical version of America that never actually existed.

Which ones? The Federalists or the Anti-Federalists? You seem to think that all of the founders were of the same mind. They weren't. So which founders were "pretty bright" and "clairvoyant", the Hamiltonians or the Jeffersonians?

How exactly do I think, Scott? Your paranoia is showing again.

btw how do you feel about Hamilton's interpretation of the General Welfare Clause? Washington was a big fan.

But this is your - and the conservative's - basic problem: anyone who doesn't agree with you isn't a real American or doesn't believe in the concept of "America". Are you starting to see why the right tends to alienate a lot of groups?
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You seem to think that all of the founders were of the same mind.
Don't know where you are picking that up from.

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So which founders were "pretty bright" and "clairvoyant", the Hamiltonians or the Jeffersonians
I think you have to give a lot of credit to most of the founders. What was created surpassed anything that ever existed before it in a relatively short period of time. The art of compromise was probably never better than the formation of the declaration, constitution... bill of rights. We probably peaked then.

I've always believed in a free-market, limited government model. The definition of each has gone back and forth since the beginning. In that sense I'm not really a modern day republican or a democrat. More fiscal conservative leaning libertarian.

Over the years (from the mid-1770's on) I could have been described to be both Hamiltonian and Jeffersonian depending on timing and who was creating the narrative.

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How exactly do I think, Scott? Your paranoia is showing again.
I don't think so. You are as obvious as you are consistent. Central control. You crave it.

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But this is your - and the conservative's - basic problem: anyone who doesn't agree with you isn't a real American
I would say there's at least some truth to this. For those who have no qualms of trampling constitutional protections, who want a re-write of the foundation of this country, who really despise much of the history and original intent of this government... yeah. Those folks probably aren't what I would deem real Americans. Or maybe better described as self-loathing Americans.

There's other governments that are probably more in-line with those views. Seems to me it might be easier to switch than fight.

Of course, the rate things are changing, I may be the one looking for the switch rather than the fight.
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  #6805  
Old 01-31-13, 21:48
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Don't know where you are picking that up from.

I think you have to give a lot of credit to most of the founders. What was created surpassed anything that ever existed before it in a relatively short period of time.
Against which model and according to which criteria?

For blacks and natives not so good. On the other hand, within the same construct, as long as we're talking about selective freedom, then the otium of the classical world surely beats all. Cheers
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  #6806  
Old 01-31-13, 21:59
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Against which model and according to which criteria?

For blacks and natives not so good. On the other hand, within the same construct, as long as we're talking about selective freedom, then the otium of the classical world surely beats all. Cheers
You are fond of telling us the plight of those in much of Africa. Slavery was a horrendous stain, no question, as was the treatment of native Americans.

Of the US citizens that can trace their ancestry back to Africa, would they have been better off if there ancestors had not been brought to America? Same with those coming from the Caribbean?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a favor was done for them. I am simply asking your opinion.
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  #6807  
Old 01-31-13, 22:01
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I don't think so. You are as obvious as you are consistent. Central control. You crave it.

I would say there's at least some truth to this. For those who have no qualms of trampling constitutional protections, who want a re-write of the foundation of this country, who really despise much of the history and original intent of this government... yeah. Those folks probably aren't what I would deem real Americans. Or maybe better described as self-loathing Americans.

There's other governments that are probably more in-line with those views. Seems to me it might be easier to switch than fight.

Of course, the rate things are changing, I may be the one looking for the switch rather than the fight.
We change, update, and reinterpret the Constitution all the bleedin' time - slavery was once Constitutional, so was denying women the vote, so was Prohibition. WTF do you think we have a SC for? Even Madison and Jefferson suggested that each generation develop their own Constitution to reflect the changing times.

You've scared yourself into believing that universal health care and stricter gun laws et al. represent the end of America. That's just ****ing pathetic.
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  #6808  
Old 01-31-13, 22:27
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You are fond of telling us the plight of those in much of Africa. Slavery was a horrendous stain, no question, as was the treatment of native Americans.

Of the US citizens that can trace their ancestry back to Africa, would they have been better off if there ancestors had not been brought to America? Same with those coming from the Caribbean?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a favor was done for them. I am simply asking your opinion.
But this is non consequential when set against self aggrandizement. No? And we shouldn't be speaking in terms of favors. Non were given.

As far as Africa and the New World are concerned, what must be considered are the conditions at the time and what followed. Sure it's a war of attrition, but much was inflicted.

Last edited by rhubroma; 02-01-13 at 08:00.
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  #6809  
Old 01-31-13, 22:50
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We change, update, and reinterpret the Constitution all the bleedin' time - slavery was once Constitutional, so was denying women the vote, so was Prohibition. WTF do you think we have a SC for? Even Madison and Jefferson suggested that each generation develop their own Constitution to reflect the changing times.

You've scared yourself into believing that universal health care and stricter gun laws et al. represent the end of America. That's just ****ing pathetic.
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WTF do you think we have a SC for?
There have been 16 amendments since 1795 and two of those were to prohit alcohol and to unwind that amendment. Change and updates don't happen all the time. Interpretations? Sure. SC.

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You've scared yourself into believing that universal health care and stricter gun laws et al. represent the end of America. That's just ****ing pathetic

Ah, the hysteria. You never disappoint. Didn't I just say that my future looked bright?

Universal Health, gun banns, repeal 2nd amendment.... the union will survive that. The 25, 30, 50 trillion in debt and subsequent monetary collapse we won't survive. So my advice is, live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse.
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  #6810  
Old 01-31-13, 22:55
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But this is non consequential when set against self aggrandizement. No? And we shouldn't be speaking in terms of favors. Non were given.

As far as Africa and the New World are concerned, what must be considered is the conditions at the time and what followed. Sure it's a war of attrition, but much was inflicted.
Was? It's still going on in Africa one form or another, no?
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