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  #2371  
Old 02-01-13, 15:40
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GJB123 GJB123 is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
nice nuanced comment
But such a very true comment nevertheless.

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you know that my beef is not with jv but with the "cycling is so much cleaner now" movement which imo jeopardizes (or at least slows down) currents attempts to change cycling. the movement is designed to throw mud into the eyes of the fans.
i can't help it that jv is the frontrunner of that movement. (see walsh's comments)
Well you could have fooled me.
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  #2372  
Old 02-01-13, 15:43
sniper sniper is offline
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Obviously I meant to say Gripper believes Lance was clean in 2009. From the article you linked:
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Former head of UCI anti-doping[Gripper] claims he [Lance]was clean in 2009
How can she seriously believe that? Tygart's specialists came to quite a different conclusion. JV once said Gripper is incorruptable. I wonder what JV makes of her comments on Lance, and generally what JV himself thinks of LAnce's 2009/10 performances.

Last edited by sniper; 02-01-13 at 15:47.
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  #2373  
Old 02-01-13, 15:53
sniper sniper is offline
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But such a very true comment nevertheless.
Well you could have fooled me.
could you refrain from posting superfluous comments? we're having JV in the house right now and a lot of well-meant questions. such posts make it all a bit messy and thus merely derail what could otherwise become an interesting conversation. thanks in advance.
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  #2374  
Old 02-01-13, 15:56
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GJB123 GJB123 is offline
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could you refrain from posting superfluous comments? we're having JV in the house right now and a lot of well-meant questions. such posts make it all a bit messy and thus merely derail what could otherwise become an interesting conversation. thanks in advance.
Well if you would keep it limited to well-meant questions instead of your usual assumptions, misrepresentations and innuendo we might indeed have a chance of having an interesting conversation. However somehow when you are around and the V-word is mentioned an interesting conversation is usually the last thing one tends find here.
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  #2375  
Old 02-01-13, 15:58
sniper sniper is offline
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Well if you would keep it limited to well-meant questions instead of your usual assumptions, misrepresentations and innuendo we might indeed have a chance of having an interesting conversation. However somehow when you are around and the V-word is mentioned an interesting conversation is usually the last thing one tends find here.
ffs, dude.
mods, i'd be thankful if the superflluous exchange between me and GBJ be removed.

Last edited by sniper; 02-01-13 at 16:05.
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  #2376  
Old 02-01-13, 16:10
pmcg76 pmcg76 is offline
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So strange that he was added to the biological passport program in 2010 then.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/31...programme.aspx
Many thanks for this. Last night I pointed out that continental teams were not part of the BP and thus were not tested. Another poster then added a link showing Rasmussen was in the 2012 testing pool so we didn't really understand why that was. This piece of news clears that up.
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  #2377  
Old 02-01-13, 16:18
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ChrisE ChrisE is offline
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Well if you would keep it limited to well-meant questions instead of your usual assumptions, misrepresentations and innuendo we might indeed have a chance of having an interesting conversation. However somehow when you are around and the V-word is mentioned an interesting conversation is usually the last thing one tends find here.
Sniper asked about Gripper. Why don't you sit back and chill out while we watch glaciers slide down mountains, waiting for JV's response to this jamming question?
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  #2378  
Old 02-01-13, 18:06
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
nice nuanced comment

you know that my beef is not with jv but with the "cycling is so much cleaner now" movement which imo jeopardizes (or at least slows down) currents attempts to change cycling. the movement is designed to throw mud into the eyes of the fans.
i can't help it that jv is the frontrunner of that movement. (see walsh's comments)

I'm not throwing mud in anyone's eyes. The data is available for everyone to see. My opinion, looking at the data (median hb, climbing speeds, and median retic stability) lead me to believe that racing is cleaner. It's that simple.

You don't have to agree. I don't care. I'm just saying that is my interpretation.

And if folks are doping, it isn't helping them very much (per climbing speed data), so what do I care? If I think a young talented rider can win clean and won't be put in the "you'll need to dope to win or place" position, then frankly I don't care if some moron is injecting monkey placenta into his brain thinking it'll help. If it doesn't significantly destabilize the opportunities highly talented and clean riders have, I'm not going to go ape**** about it. Waste.

What's not a waste of energy is making sure we don't enter another period where the doping methods outstrip large differences in talent. That is when the whole thing goes sideways.

Also, I'm not going to lie and say "dammit, it's all dirty!! Especially those evil feckers at Sky!!".... I don't believe that. Why would I say it? Just to feel good about myself?

As for Walsh, I talk to David quite a bit, and I think he is of the same opinion. At least in our discussions he seems fairly convince by the data. But then, it's his job to always be a bit on guard. And I'm sure you can find some sound byte that shows he's suspect. But sound bytes you get to read in the press don't equal knowing someone for a decade and speaking with them regularly.

That's the thing, you guys try to place me at odds with Kimmage and Walsh or whatever. These people have stayed in my guest room and had BBQ ribs at my dinner table. And we debate this stuff, but all in good humor. I listen to them, they listen to me. It's constructive. Which is something you could aim for.


I first had dinner with David in 2003. And admitted my whole story to him around that time as well. He kept it private, which was nice of him... But anyway, just saying', I was hang in with Walsh before it was what all the cool kids wanted to do.

I know I'm really annoying you with that last paragraph. It's intentional.

JV
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  #2379  
Old 02-01-13, 18:14
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Obviously I meant to say Gripper believes Lance was clean in 2009. From the article you linked:

How can she seriously believe that? Tygart's specialists came to quite a different conclusion. JV once said Gripper is incorruptable. I wonder what JV makes of her comments on Lance, and generally what JV himself thinks of LAnce's 2009/10 performances.
I think Lance was pretty slow in 2009-2010. Relative to his old self. I already said that in an interview with Jeremy Whittle at the time. And Lance got really ****ed. I think I had over 1000 nasty twitters from Lance-o-maniacs. Who now all hate him. Whichever way the wind blows....

As for Gripper and Tygart. Neither are hematologists. I would like to hear from the people that actually analyzed the data. Do I believe Anne is incorruptible? Yes. Just my belief. Not more.

Would be interesting to hear the reasons from the actual data analysts.
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  #2380  
Old 02-01-13, 18:20
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Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
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I first had dinner with David in 2003. And admitted my whole story to him around that time as well. He kept it private, which was nice of him... But anyway, just saying', I was hang in with Walsh before it was what all the cool kids wanted to do.

I know I'm really annoying you with that last paragraph. It's intentional.

JV
Name caller and now name dropper to add to your list of abilities.....cycling will miss you when that big faceless corp comes calling

So you didn't think the Vuelta was dirty, watching Valverde climbing with Contador and JRod?

As if the passport is actually working considering McQuaid is in charge!

And you thought Sky doing a USPS was clean!

What is the bench mark for clean cycling? LeMonds numbers? But only LeMond and a few could reach those numbers clean. Who is the LeMond of 2012. Wiggins? No way.Contador, but was he ever clean?
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