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View Poll Results: Which double is harder to do?
Giro - Tour 72 87.80%
Tour - Vuelta 3 3.66%
equally hard 6 7.32%
equally impossible 1 1.22%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 02-03-13, 11:54
airstream airstream is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cineteq View Post
The poll is proving you way wrong. Did you intend a different question? I don't get the 'too simplified'.
I don't think so otherwise I wouldn't open the thread.
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  #22  
Old 02-03-13, 12:04
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Maaaaaaaarten Maaaaaaaarten is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
Cobo rode Angliru faster than Contador. But let's think if characterizes him badly if you like. Nonetheless, Froome rode very conservatively for Wiggins. He would have ridden much stronger for himself.
Yes, the stage Contador rode was 209,5km long and the stage Cobo rode was 142.2km. Contador had to race for more than 60km longer. Contadors race was a bit less than 2 hours longer that day. Also, the stage Contador rode had 5 categorized climbs, while Cobo's stage had only 3. Obviously Cobo did it faster, because Contador's stage was a serious mountain stage instead of that >150k crap we've been getting so much recently.

Froome would've rode conservatively if Contador was there too, so that doesn't change a thing. If these guys couldn't take more than 4min on Monfort, Contador would've probably won. Heck, Cobo took an impressive 1:35 on Sergey Lagutin on one of the toughest climbs used in GT's!
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  #23  
Old 02-03-13, 12:22
airstream airstream is offline
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Originally Posted by Maaaaaaaarten View Post
Yes, the stage Contador rode was 209,5km long and the stage Cobo rode was 142.2km. Contador had to race for more than 60km longer. Contadors race was a bit less than 2 hours longer that day. Also, the stage Contador rode had 5 categorized climbs, while Cobo's stage had only 3. Obviously Cobo did it faster, because Contador's stage was a serious mountain stage instead of that >150k crap we've been getting so much recently.
It can't be an absolute justification as you are trying to present it. Cobo did almost entire climb alone whereas Contador attacked only about from 2-3 km's to go. Crap? Any thing to belittle works right? Ok.
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Froome would've rode conservatively if Contador was there too, so that doesn't change a thing. If these guys couldn't take more than 4min on Monfort, Contador would've probably won. Heck, Cobo took an impressive 1:35 on Sergey Lagutin on one of the toughest climbs used in GT's!
It changes everything drastically. Froome would have attacked as he did on Pena Cabarga, surely if you don't consider attacks against Contador illegal. What does Monfort have got with that? Sky didn't need to isolate Monfort or something. Or Monfort's closeness denigrates anyone? Everything depends on existing tasks. Sky tried to freeze the situation in the mountains, because that scenario suited Wiggins perfectly.


Yes! I can imagine how Lagutin hurt all fans of domination. Lol. Poor guys.

Last edited by airstream; 02-03-13 at 12:24.
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  #24  
Old 02-03-13, 12:34
Mad Elephant Man Mad Elephant Man is offline
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It is the Giro Tour by a long way.
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  #25  
Old 02-03-13, 13:13
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
Cobo rode Angliru faster than Contador. But let's think if characterizes him badly if you like. Nonetheless, Froome rode very conservatively for Wiggins. He would have ridden much stronger for himself.
he didn't. he was around 45 sec slower than alberto.

about the on-topic
i tend to believe that giro-tour is harder but nowadays with vuelta being hard ridden too ,tour-vuelta is also hard to accomplish
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  #26  
Old 02-03-13, 13:16
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airstream View Post
It can't be an absolute justification as you are trying to present it. Cobo did almost entire climb alone whereas Contador attacked only about from 2-3 km's to go. Crap? Any thing to belittle works right? Ok.
3 problems for you.

1) Contador attacked at the base, it's just that he only got rid of Rodríguez and Valverde with 2-3kms to go.

2) Contador won the climb on this stage:

Cobo won it on this stage:


Though we can argue about the silliness of the Vuelta's mountains categorisations, there's an uncategorised and a 2nd category climb before the time honoured Cordal-Angliru combo in 2011. In 2008 there was a 3rd category climb and two more 1st category climbs in a much longer stage.

3) Your argument is completely moot anyway as Contador's time from 2008 was 43'12 and Cobo's from 2011 was 43'44, and so unless you contend that Cobo is capable of ripping the fabric of space and time, Contador did complete the climb quicker than Cobo.
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  #27  
Old 02-03-13, 13:17
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
he didn't. he was around 45 sec slower than alberto.

about the on-topic
i tend to believe that giro-tour is harder but nowadays with vuelta being hard ridden too ,tour-vuelta is also hard to accomplish
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
3 problems for you.
3) Your argument is completely moot anyway as Contador's time from 2008 was 43'12 and Cobo's from 2011 was 43'44, and so unless you contend that Cobo is capable of ripping the fabric of space and time, Contador did complete the climb quicker than Cobo.
haha ouch

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  #28  
Old 02-03-13, 13:24
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It is not like that having teammates mean something at last 6 km, there's pretty much a time trial for everyone there


I think that comparing climbing times mean very little as there are various parameters before a climb (Toughness of the stage, toughness of the whole race etc)
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  #29  
Old 02-03-13, 13:43
airstream airstream is offline
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Originally Posted by burning View Post
It is not like that having teammates mean something at last 6 km, there's pretty much a time trial for everyone there
It means a lot because Leipheimer did a lot of work for Contador. In addition Valverde or Rodriguez even tried to attack so it made the time even faster. Cobo objectively rode the climb in a tt mode.
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  #30  
Old 02-03-13, 14:06
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Miburo Miburo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airstream View Post
It means a lot because Leipheimer did a lot of work for Contador. In addition Valverde or Rodriguez even tried to attack so it made the time even faster. Cobo objectively rode the climb in a tt mode.
Valverde went one time, and did purito attack?

I don't remember that.
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