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  #121  
Old 02-02-13, 21:07
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Everytime I think of Vos i say to myself "....not normal......"
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  #122  
Old 02-02-13, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
Hugely talented and thrashing dopers?????
Point taken.

Again, I know dudly close to nothing on women cycling, I know Longo/Vos/the other Dutch woman who had the eating disorder and the nice looking French girl....
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  #123  
Old 02-02-13, 21:22
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Hugely talented and thrashing dopers?????
It's possible that Vos is doping. I don't think it's possible, however, that she isn't hugely talented regardless.

There have been a few doping cases in women's cycling - Jeanson, Bastianelli, Bubnenkova, Leleivyte to name four - but with the depth of field being what it is, if you're one of the few that can make enough money to get by and do things professionally in the sport you have a performance advantage without needing to dope. Nicole Cooke, for example, was a very outspoken anti-doper, and though her last two or three seasons may have been disappointing, she certainly put together a very good palmarès before that. Does this mean Cooke is certainly clean? Perhaps not. But she talks a much better talk than most.

Vos hasn't transformed or suddenly discovered hitherto unrecognised skills. Her transition from being mostly for flat races or puncheur events to somebody who could win the Giro Donne took place over 3 or 4 years, rather than waking up one day thinking "I reckon I can be a climber" and suddenly dropping Claudia Häusler, Mara Abbott and Emma Pooley. She still gets dropped on longer, tougher climbs by the likes of these, and Evelyn Stevens, who has really come on over the last 2 years, it's just that she quashes them on intermediate and hilly stages and due to the lack of funding in the sport there are precious few races with real long, difficult climbs for people to drop her on, and the 4-5km climbs of races like the Emakumeen Bira are well within her remit, while on stages like the Stelvio one in 2010 she loses minutes.

Of course, while Vos earning much more than most women's cyclists (at least in part due to bogarting the prize money) does mean that she can afford better training, better planning and can be more dedicated than most of her competition, it could also be argued that it does also mean that she can afford a more sophisticated doping program than those the likes of Leleivyte (first-generation EPO) and Bastianelli (dodgy dieting supplement) used. But because of the lack of depth in the women's péloton and how dominant she has been ever since childhood so no particular performances are really abnormal for her, it's not as easy to draw an obvious conclusion as it would be for somebody who replicated her preposterous level of achievement in the men's field with its far larger field and much greater extent of specialization.
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  #124  
Old 02-02-13, 21:27
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
It's possible that Vos is doping. I don't think it's possible, however, that she isn't hugely talented regardless.

There have been a few doping cases in women's cycling - Jeanson, Bastianelli, Bubnenkova, Leleivyte to name four - but with the depth of field being what it is, if you're one of the few that can make enough money to get by and do things professionally in the sport you have a performance advantage without needing to dope. Nicole Cooke, for example, was a very outspoken anti-doper, and though her last two or three seasons may have been disappointing, she certainly put together a very good palmarès before that. Does this mean Cooke is certainly clean? Perhaps not. But she talks a much better talk than most.

Vos hasn't transformed or suddenly discovered hitherto unrecognised skills. Her transition from being mostly for flat races or puncheur events to somebody who could win the Giro Donne took place over 3 or 4 years, rather than waking up one day thinking "I reckon I can be a climber" and suddenly dropping Claudia Häusler, Mara Abbott and Emma Pooley. She still gets dropped on longer, tougher climbs by the likes of these, and Evelyn Stevens, who has really come on over the last 2 years, it's just that she quashes them on intermediate and hilly stages and due to the lack of funding in the sport there are precious few races with real long, difficult climbs for people to drop her on, and the 4-5km climbs of races like the Emakumeen Bira are well within her remit, while on stages like the Stelvio one in 2010 she loses minutes.

Of course, while Vos earning much more than most women's cyclists (at least in part due to bogarting the prize money) does mean that she can afford better training, better planning and can be more dedicated than most of her competition, it could also be argued that it does also mean that she can afford a more sophisticated doping program than those the likes of Leleivyte (first-generation EPO) and Bastianelli (dodgy dieting supplement) used. But because of the lack of depth in the women's péloton and how dominant she has been ever since childhood so no particular performances are really abnormal for her, it's not as easy to draw an obvious conclusion as it would be for somebody who replicated her preposterous level of achievement in the men's field with its far larger field and much greater extent of specialization.
Cheers LS, but there will always be riders who want to win more than anything and will do anything to achieve it. So for Vos to beat this type by so much and make it look so easy raises my suspicions.

Cooke rode very well during a dark era for cycling and I have an opinion on that.

As I said, I dont understand why the riders are not doing as much possible to eliminate as much of the suspicions that they can.
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  #125  
Old 02-03-13, 00:54
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If you've ever ridden a bike offroad, you can tell why Vos won this one. She won it ever single meter of that race. You almost cannot lose a race when you're riding that sharp, finding so much grip, smooth lines, and super snappy dis- and remounts. On top of her solo performance, she hapens to be one of the most gifted women for outright speed on a bike. The on-off character of cross suits her better than most others.

I am more worried about compton. She either has an engine and a half, or...
Always shows mediocre skill and still manages superb lap times. Where are those coming from?

The first race I won myself, on a somehwat similar course (albeit MTB), I was in a similar flow to Vos here. It's over a decade ago but I can still ride that race in my head. I was so ON... Took a minute even out of a Lotto pro.
When Vos has such a day, she doesn't win by a minute, but a minute and a half :-)
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  #126  
Old 02-03-13, 06:01
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
Cheers LS, but there will always be riders who want to win more than anything and will do anything to achieve it. So for Vos to beat this type by so much and make it look so easy raises my suspicions.
IF she dominated, then vanished, or went midfield with an infinite number of excuses, then burst back onto the podium, that, for me, is a clear sign of doping.

This is Merckx/Lemond/NameYourLegend level performances where Vos just showing up any time takes one podium spot away.



I don't know anything. but I still hope I'm right.
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Last edited by DirtyWorks; 02-03-13 at 06:05.
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  #127  
Old 02-03-13, 13:00
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Marianne Vos is obviously a supremely gifted individual. It is a rare talent that allows her to compete at the highest levels of her sport year after year. And not just peaking for one part of the calender either. She dances the entire schedule. Road, CX..Dope alone could not allow this to happen. Some drugs may help but I believe she really is that much better.
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  #128  
Old 02-03-13, 13:07
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
IF she dominated, then vanished, or went midfield with an infinite number of excuses, then burst back onto the podium, that, for me, is a clear sign of doping.

This is Merckx/Lemond/NameYourLegend level performances where Vos just showing up any time takes one podium spot away.
Much like Contador.
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  #129  
Old 02-03-13, 13:35
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
Much like Contador.
You don't know much about women's cycling, it seems. Maybe power wise Compton will be close to her, but technically she's so far above everyone else that she can just ride away from them.

You can't improve your technique by doping.
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  #130  
Old 02-03-13, 13:36
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
You don't know much about women's cycling, it seems. Maybe power wise Compton will be close to her, but technically she's so far above everyone else that she can just ride away from them.

You can't improve your technique by doping.
Where did I or the post I quoted say anything about technique?
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