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  #2571  
Old 02-03-13, 22:03
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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I'm also curious about how JV sees a T&R process working. I can't see it working unless we're sure the same mistakes won't be repeated immediately afterwards (which basically means unless we can trust the UCI). There's no point in an amnesty if people can then go on to commit the same crimes again. Sure, a non-corrupt UCI wouldn't catch all the cheats, but I always got the feeling the tools currently in place would be much more effective in the fight against doping if used properly and fairly.

There's also the question of the lack of incentive to come forward, which is sort of linked to the above in that amnesty would be the only incentive, but that's not very enticing if you're not likely to get caught anyway. While it's relatively easy for the likes of Grischa Niermann to confess, I don't see how a T&R process would draw out officially untainted people from the "clean" era. What's in it for them? They would taint their reputations for absolutely no gain.

A final problem would be the prevailing attitude in, say, the Spanish peloton. There are virtually no cracks in the omertà. Can a T&R process go on without the Spanish (a large portion of the peloton, and a very successful one) taking part?
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  #2572  
Old 02-03-13, 22:25
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Granville57 Granville57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
BTW - Allen was hardly central. Our best years have been since he left. As i later found, there are better sports scientists. He was just a very good promotor.
That's actually a very funny typo...













































I think.
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  #2573  
Old 02-03-13, 22:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granville57 View Post
That's actually a very funny typo...













































I think.

On that point


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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
No. I wasn't part of the motorman group. Only the pretty girls get asked to prom.

Was US Postal sticking motors in their bikes
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If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
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  #2574  
Old 02-03-13, 22:38
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Granville57 Granville57 is offline
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"There must be a way to go faster..."
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  #2575  
Old 02-03-13, 22:48
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Every 20 years a legend of the sport retains the Giro

52 53 - Coppi
72-73 Merckx
92-93 Indurain
Only Hejsedal can do 2012 - 2013.


10chars
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  #2576  
Old 02-04-13, 03:35
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Originally Posted by SundayRider View Post
Exactly - hard work and strength of mind alone will not get you to the podium of a GT, I think this is something that Armstrong (and others) found very hard to deal with.
but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-...NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves
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  #2577  
Old 02-04-13, 09:11
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Every 20 years a legend of the sport retains the Giro

52 53 - Coppi
72-73 Merckx
92-93 Indurain
Only Hejsedal can do 2012 - 2013.
patani 98/99
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  #2578  
Old 02-04-13, 09:14
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-...NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves
sources?

....
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  #2579  
Old 02-04-13, 09:44
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Jonathan, could you expand on the role of Johnny Weltz at Garmin?
The team's website only says this:
Quote:
In addition to being the head Sports Director at USPS from 1997-1998, Johnny was the winner of a stage in the 1988 Tour de France, and a long standing member of the powerful ONCE team. Johnny brings extensive experience to the Garmin-Transitions team, and seeks to lead the team to greatness in their European campaigns.
Has he ever admitted to his role as doping courier at USPS? Is or has he been talking to USADA?
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  #2580  
Old 02-04-13, 10:11
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
but Armstrong always had the hypodermics and saucepans.

he started the alchemy in triathlon.

cav woulda been similar. the way cycling is set up, favoured this athlete type. this psychology type.

interesting case will be how an ascent to the top, may change someone, and what definition of "change" is used. (this is psychology type).

is Wiggins gonna become a Mofo and patron in the Armstrong mould. Because he looks like he is a decent person. How will he leverage his new found power? I am of the postion, that the British track endurance program, never deserved their squeaky reputation through the 2000's. they did what the others did. which made it more hypocritical with the cofidis scandal when they were booted from the tour and vino ejected, and wiggins comments, because he woulda been on a maintenance program then. not a heavy duty program. do they give themselves a pass with this? because if they already think doping is no probs, just the health aspect is a concern http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/wp-...NOW-FINAL-.pdf

then why come out with the personal polemics when a rider like vino or ricco falls foul?

these folks cant even tell the truth to themselves
This all highly speculative. Surely there is a huge danger in talking in definitives when they are suspicious. They may be suspicious based on good instinct and analysis but they remain suspicions not truth, which means that final line is an injustice to those you accuse.
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