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  #21  
Old 02-04-13, 04:19
Krebs cycle Krebs cycle is offline
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Originally Posted by lean,mean,&green View Post
All good suggestions. If you or I were running the UCI we'd be catching dopers early and often. Truthfully, it ain't even hard. The difference is we WANT to catch them though.

I agree, lengthening the window of detection even just a few days makes a big difference. Think about stage races and the way micro dosing manipulates retics and obscures transfusions. IOW both EPO and transfusions become riskier. JM said this pattern drove his design study. Nice work for a "non-expert".
Yep didn't even think of that aspect. Since the primary function of microdosing in-competition is to mask the effect of transfusions on the biopassport, then if you combine this test with the biopassport it starts to make it much harder to stay inside the thresholds following an infusion.
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  #22  
Old 02-04-13, 04:19
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Well it is a great advance because microdosing is only effective if you're having injections everyday or every 2nd day for weeks or months at a time. If your "glowtime" increases from 12 to 72hrs that means the risk of going +ve during out of competition testing is dramatically increased.
But only effective if they are actually tested OOC.

Average OOC urine tests for 2011 was 2 - ie twice a year. 70% of those urine samples were tested for EPO.

:-/
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  #23  
Old 02-04-13, 05:27
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But only effective if they are actually tested OOC.

Average OOC urine tests for 2011 was 2 - ie twice a year. 70% of those urine samples were tested for EPO.

:-/
Not sure of the cost of this new test but it would also be a win if it was cheaper than the current version.

But you're right, the unfortunate sad reality is that anti-doping researchers and the test methods they develop can only go so far. Ultimately it is up to the governing body (my hope is that doping control in cycling is removed from the authority of the UCI) actually conducts enough tests and at the right time.
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  #24  
Old 02-04-13, 09:29
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But only effective if they are actually tested OOC.

Average OOC urine tests for 2011 was 2 - ie twice a year. 70% of those urine samples were tested for EPO.

:-/
It's still a strong deterrent. It would make the risk of the current microdosing regimes unacceptable.
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  #25  
Old 02-04-13, 15:39
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Clausfarre Clausfarre is offline
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It just seems that history has shown us that with refined tests for doping comes new products and methods. It's an arms race that can only be slowed down in the attitude of the peloton changes. Which it has, if we are to believe certain people.

Not sure though... I usually like to base my optimism on, well, something.
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  #26  
Old 02-04-13, 18:28
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lean,mean,&green lean,mean,&green is offline
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It just seems that history has shown us that with refined tests for doping comes new products and methods. It's an arms race that can only be slowed down in the attitude of the peloton changes. Which it has, if we are to believe certain people.

Not sure though... I usually like to base my optimism on, well, something.
what history has actually shown as is that the fox can't watch the hen house. history's also shown us that even when the foxes reluctantly use slightly more effective, strategic, and well-timed testing a new speed limit can be set.

there's always a need for new and better testing but don't let the comments of overconfident dopers fool you, many of the tools we have to work with at present are quite effective when applied correctly.

show me a governing body motivated to catch people (i don't know of any) and i'll show you a clean sport.

in the long term, independent 3rd party testing and results management are the only option.
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  #27  
Old 02-04-13, 18:32
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Originally Posted by lean,mean,&green View Post
what history has actually shown as is that the fox can't watch the hen house. history's also shown us that even when the foxes reluctantly use slightly more effective, strategic, and well-timed testing a new speed limit can be set.

there's always a need for new and better testing but don't let the comments of overconfident dopers fool you, many of the tools we have to work with at present are quite effective when applied correctly.

show me a governing body motivated to catch people (i don't know of any) and i'll show you a clean sport.

in the long term, independent 3rd party testing and results management are the only option.
+1

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  #28  
Old 02-04-13, 19:37
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Interesting.

The essence is that you cut the testing time from 3 days to 20 minutes...and, you can do mass production, like 20 samples at once instead of one at a time.

Right there is a benefit. Then getting more sensitive testing makes for better testing to build a rider's passport DB.

Last edited by zigmeister; 02-04-13 at 19:40.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-13, 21:29
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Originally Posted by lean,mean,&green View Post
show me a governing body motivated to catch people (i don't know of any) and i'll show you a clean sport.

in the long term, independent 3rd party testing and results management are the only option.
Exactly right. As long as UCI, with their less than stellar track record, aren't willing to set up independent testing we must doubt their sincerity. I mean, the UCI can set some pretty tough parimeters that the new authority has to meet but I have heard nothing of the kind.

Change Cycling Now put forward the proposal and the UCI does not have to do everything they suggest but AT LEAST, for the sake of the sport, have a dialogue in stead of digging trenches, shooting at everyone. Pat must have his own reasons for being such a control freak.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-13, 21:44
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Every 2-4 years, samples from the last 10 years should be tested with whatever relevant new tests have appeared in that time frame.

A positive should be taken as any other adverse analytical finding and bans issued, with loss of results from the date of the sample being taken to the date of the adverse analytical finding. Along with repayment of prize money etc...

Doesn't matter if the sample is a week old or 10 years old. Lose everything between that date and the time the test is run.

That should put a suitable climate of fear around risking dodgy substances.
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