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  #161  
Old 02-05-13, 04:18
clotho2 clotho2 is offline
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@D-Queued "After all, it isn't like Lance was some sort of genetically gifted athlete. Just a really good liar, cheater, doper and doper responder."


I totally agree with you. And that is what I don't get. Why is it that some still consider armstrong some kind of mega-cyclist when most of what he was came fom his doping regimen?

How many times have we heard or read that lance was mediocre at best. that maybe he would have lucked up and won one TDF. (Even that came from Tyler Hamilton, who still seems enthralled by armstrong,)

lance armstrong had enough funds to develop his own undetectable drugs. I for one believe the research he funded through LAF.org was was research on doping drugs. Once you pay a lab they work for you. Don't they??? I'm sure lance was introduced to all sorts of drugs while fighting cancer. They usually are desperate enough to want to try any and everything. I don't see lance being any different; in fact I think he'd be even more willing to try things.

The whole cancer things troubles me. Think about it! If lance did get cancer as a result of his doping then he scammed the public by asking us to fund his dot org. Can you image the nerve of that guy.

I wonder just how much of the monies raised for laf.org was actually used on live bodies.

I'm sorry, there's nothing about lance that demands we praise him.
  #162  
Old 02-05-13, 04:42
clotho2 clotho2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
With all the bad news about the UCI coming out, you might want to reappraise your opinion that Lance was the ONLY rider who had a corrupt relationship with the UCI.
Again, I agree! It doesn't make sense that armstrong was the only one cozing up to UCI.You see UCI no doubt thinks of cycling as a business not a sport(albeit, it's a racket and neither) A business that has potential for enormous influence and capital. However, it first has to pull everyone in. And like any true sport, (Hah) it must have big names competing daily.

Now, the dopers got caught, or were snitched on. If for nothing else than to extort money from them. If UCI didn't have a big budget, where did they get money to do the things they did. Weren't the heads world travellers? Fine dining, fine lodging... did they drive Saabs? They has accustomed lifestyles. And then there were the day to day expenses of UCI. So where did the money come from if not the cyclists?

I still say the Hotline probably didn't yield but a handful of confessors and that's why they' re beating their chests about a T & R now. Also why the commision was dismantled. One hand washing the others. Hein & McQuaid are scoundrels. If armstrong ever gets the guts to become a hero in Luke's eye lots of riders will fall.

No, lance wasn't the only one in with UCI. Well, maybe lance's relationship was deeper but rest assured UCI used the peloton for its purposes.
  #163  
Old 02-05-13, 06:01
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86TDFWinner 86TDFWinner is offline
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Never ever supported that ******bag, after his first tour win, he came off as a condescending prick. I just had this feeling he wasn't legit. Turns out I was right
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"According to Mrs LeMond, Armstrong said: "There's no way you could have won your Tour de Frances without EPO." And Greg got very angry and said, "Listen, I won my - I was third in 1984, I was second in 1985, I won in 1986. This type of drug did not exist.The difference between you and me is that I have a 95 VO2 max and you have an 82, and you're - you don't - basically you don't know what you're talking about."(Proving Wonderboy is a clueless, lying POS)
  #164  
Old 02-05-13, 08:29
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Originally Posted by clotho2 View Post
....

How many times have we heard or read that lance was mediocre at best. that maybe he would have lucked up and won one TDF. (Even that came from Tyler Hamilton, who still seems enthralled by armstrong,)
....
It seems as if Hamilton's views on whether or not la could have won a Tour clean/clean peloton/etc have changed since his first 60 minutes interview. I don't understand how anybody could say he could win maybe 1,2, or 3 but not seven. You're either a contender or your not. Proclaiming he could win anything more than zero would put him in the champion category. And if he could win one, what would stop him from winning 7 against largely the same competition.

I don't see how anybody could "luck into" winning the Tour against superior climbers or TT'ers. Pereiro's situation doesn't apply either because in our hypothetical clean peloton Floyd wouldn't have gotten thrown out.

I'm not trying to get everybody speculating about this all over again, just trying to make the point he would either be a contender, much like lance the doper or a rider with no possibility of winning the GC. To say he could have won a few is merely an attempt to give him undeserved respect based on illogical reasoning.
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  #165  
Old 02-05-13, 08:48
clotho2 clotho2 is offline
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Well, look at Andy Schleck...
  #166  
Old 02-05-13, 17:30
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Originally Posted by clotho2 View Post
Well, look at Andy Schleck...
Are you saying clean lance in a clean peloton would be the caliber of rider that Andy is in the current dirty field?
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There was so much evidence staring everybody in the face and yet so many people wanted to believe the beautiful lie, rather than the ugly truth. -Alex Gibney
  #167  
Old 02-05-13, 17:54
Grand Tourist Grand Tourist is offline
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I was pretty confident he was 'at it' by the conclusion of the 2001 T de F. That was ridiculous.
  #168  
Old 02-05-13, 18:12
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I've always loved Vittorio di Sica over Spielberg. Bertolucci and Jean-Pierre Jeunet over the larger-than-life american counterparts. Suspected LA at the WC in Oslo. Still thinks he was juiced.
  #169  
Old 02-05-13, 18:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clotho2 View Post
@D-Queued "After all, it isn't like Lance was some sort of genetically gifted athlete. Just a really good liar, cheater, doper and doper responder."


I totally agree with you. And that is what I don't get. Why is it that some still consider armstrong some kind of mega-cyclist when most of what he was came fom his doping regimen?

How many times have we heard or read that lance was mediocre at best. that maybe he would have lucked up and won one TDF. (Even that came from Tyler Hamilton, who still seems enthralled by armstrong,)

lance armstrong had enough funds to develop his own undetectable drugs. I for one believe the research he funded through LAF.org was was research on doping drugs. Once you pay a lab they work for you. Don't they??? I'm sure lance was introduced to all sorts of drugs while fighting cancer. They usually are desperate enough to want to try any and everything. I don't see lance being any different; in fact I think he'd be even more willing to try things.

The whole cancer things troubles me. Think about it! If lance did get cancer as a result of his doping then he scammed the public by asking us to fund his dot org. Can you image the nerve of that guy.

I wonder just how much of the monies raised for laf.org was actually used on live bodies.

I'm sorry, there's nothing about lance that demands we praise him.
This is more obfuscation trying to turn people to accept the doping as a level playing field while trying to convince us of the socalled good work for cancer.

LieStrong does not fund cancer research. LieStrong does little but redirect those stupid enough to contact it to other service providers involved in cancer patient care.

LieStrong or Armstrong never asked people to go to the .org. It made a point of never putting the .org at the end of its branded word LIESTRONG so people would go to the .com which was a money maker.

Clotho02 is a troll.
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  #170  
Old 02-05-13, 18:59
clotho2 clotho2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatclimber View Post
Are you saying clean lance in a clean peloton would be the caliber of rider that Andy is in the current dirty field?

Is your contention, anyone who can win one TDF can win two, three etc? What I'm saying about Andy is, I think we all agree Andy had more than a shot at winning TDF'10, save for a dropped chain; but he couldn't recover the time. (Same year btw, contador got popped) So yes, anyone can win one TDF, even lance and not be heard from again. So maybe lance had one clean TDF win in him, maybe that was even wishful thinking from Tyler, who knows.

The thing with lance was no one knew for sure except lance whether or not he came to TDF already doping. Me, I think he was doping as a swimmer. The guy's a consummate liar.


Last edited by clotho2; 02-05-13 at 22:12.
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