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  #681  
Old 02-11-13, 14:16
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Yeah, take a look at doping threads on football forums, laughably denialist. "What would footballers need PEDs for? It's a skill game."
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  #682  
Old 02-11-13, 14:18
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Yeah, take a look at doping threads on football forums, laughably denialist. "What would footballers need PEDs for? It's a skill game."
It was, even Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, van Basten, Best, pick a name would not be able to play nowadays. Right.
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  #683  
Old 02-11-13, 14:22
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Assuming we treat pre-blood doping football the same as we do pre-blood doping cycling, then I can't really see reasons to deny the greatness of Pele et al. Since they played in an era where the most they could have done were anabolics or amphetamines, I think it's fair to call their success 'clean' and laud them for it, instead of arguing that the HGH wonderkid is better than the lot of them combined.

Incidentally I really hate this 'skill sport' argument. There's no such thing as a skill sport, unless you count chess and video gaming as sports. Everything else has a major aspect of physicality involved.
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  #684  
Old 02-11-13, 14:33
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I think that skillful players who are clean will still be great footballers, however they will be not as good physically as those who dope, the thing about football is you cannot take a donkey and make him a racehorse with dope, but you can take a decent horse and make them a better horse, so the temptation is there, especially teamwide.

So say George Best or Gazza would still be a star, but not quite as shining stars as in their day.
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  #685  
Old 02-11-13, 14:43
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These things I hadn't really considered or didn't know. Ferdinand's missed test was considered an example of the player's stupidity rather than guilt of doping, even by opposing fans. Which is telling considering how nasty and personal fans can be to players of opposing teams.
.
Football fans know even less about doping than cycling fans. They all.believe the tests are for recreational drugs anyway - which in.a way they are. I don't think any of them considered for a second footballers would.dope.

There was an article posted here some 2 years back by some football journo who knew nothing about doping and said he didn't think Ferdinand or any football players, dope, but asked why Ferdinand missed the test.

Underneath in the comment section, hundreds of comments were not just brutaly insulting him and his kin, but threatening his physical wellbeing.
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  #686  
Old 02-11-13, 14:45
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I think that skillful players who are clean will still be great footballers, however they will be not as good physically as those who dope, the thing about football is you cannot take a donkey and make him a racehorse with dope, but you can take a decent horse and make them a better horse, so the temptation is there, especially teamwide.

So say George Best or Gazza would still be a star, but not quite as shining stars as in their day.
It's not only physicality that improves with doping.

On the whole "it's a game of skill" argument, and that "you cannot improve skill with doping".

What does improve skill?

repeated practice

What does doping allow?

Longer practice, harder practice, less downtime.

Ergo: Doping improves skill.

The mere fact that Messi "never" gets injured and is able to play far more games as lets say, a Van Persie at Arsenal, means he is able to gain a tremendous amount of experience. Which in turn greatly helps him to accelerate his learning progress in all aspects of football.
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  #687  
Old 02-11-13, 15:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphabet View Post
Assuming we treat pre-blood doping football the same as we do pre-blood doping cycling, then I can't really see reasons to deny the greatness of Pele et al. Since they played in an era where the most they could have done were anabolics or amphetamines, I think it's fair to call their success 'clean' and laud them for it, instead of arguing that the HGH wonderkid is better than the lot of them combined.

Incidentally I really hate this 'skill sport' argument. There's no such thing as a skill sport, unless you count chess and video gaming as sports. Everything else has a major aspect of physicality involved.
I recall.it being posted.on here once that beckanbauer if not cruyff openly admitted to taking amphetamines in their age just like cyclists of the time openly did.

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Originally Posted by del1962 View Post
I think that skillful players who are clean will still be great footballers, however they will be not as good physically as those who dope, the thing about football is you cannot take a donkey and make him a racehorse with dope, but you can take a decent horse and make them a better horse, so the temptation is there, especially teamwide.

So say George Best or Gazza would still be a star, but not quite as shining stars as in their day.
But competition is a thousand fold in football compared to.other sports. So while the doping may not give as big a boost over a player of similar ability, the number of players of similar ability will be very very high, so that small boost will prove sufficient to jump the line in.a big way.

There are also.more areas you can work in doping than in cycling anyway which is mainly the endurance.

In football you can work the stamina to start with and its key in the top.level games to have players that fight for the ball the full 90 and.do.it again twice a week.all season. But the physical strength and bulking up is even more.important in today's game. Then there's the speed. Having your player take a second off his 50 yard dash speed is the difference between him scoring 2 and 20.goals a season.

Injury prevention is the final wheel, again more important than in this thing of ours, because you are getting hit all the time and aggravating injuries little by little just by getting into tackles, or even running.
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If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
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  #688  
Old 02-11-13, 15:13
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Football is most certainly not a skill game. There are hundreds of kids running around the world with better dribbling ability/potential dribbling ability than Messi, but they'll never make it even as a semi-pro as they don't have the physique for it.
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  #689  
Old 02-11-13, 15:19
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Football is most certainly not a skill game. There are hundreds of kids running around the world with better dribbling ability/potential dribbling ability than Messi, but they'll never make it even as a semi-pro as they don't have the physique for it.
Whoa. Football is most definitely a skilled game. Lots of people can dribble, but to do what Messi does, at the pace that he does it takes skills of the highest order.
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  #690  
Old 02-11-13, 15:26
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Quote:
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Football is most certainly not a skill game.
If you truly believe this, then you are displaying a mind-boggling lack of understanding of the game.
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