The importance of crank length to the cyclist. - Page 180 - Cyclingnews Forum

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  #1791  
Old 02-11-13, 10:21
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Fergie, that report was made by an engineer (worked at Boeing if I remember correctly) who, before he got on the cranks, was just as negative regarding the potential as you. Not everyone has the ability to measure power down to the nanowatt (as if that is important). His reports are his reports, attempts to relate to the group his experience and analysis. My analysis was an attempt to put the overall speed improvements he reported in his final report into perspective for those who do not understand that power generally varies with the CUBE of the speed. Ignore it if you choose.
I will bear that in mind the next time I fly on a Boeing. Bit like the MIT grad who claimed a FTP (60min test) improvement from a rollers based test that was higher than his 20min power from a uphill time trial. Turns out the MIT (isn't that a big deal in the US???) grad hadn't calibrated his power meter. You would expect a MIT grad would know better.

I feel it is you who does not understand what power is and how depending on the environment and mechanical considerations that speed may have no relationship with power. Again you would think a former engineer would know better.
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Last edited by CoachFergie; 02-11-13 at 10:24.
  #1792  
Old 02-11-13, 17:29
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
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I will bear that in mind the next time I fly on a Boeing. Bit like the MIT grad who claimed a FTP (60min test) improvement from a rollers based test that was higher than his 20min power from a uphill time trial. Turns out the MIT (isn't that a big deal in the US???) grad hadn't calibrated his power meter. You would expect a MIT grad would know better.

I feel it is you who does not understand what power is and how depending on the environment and mechanical considerations that speed may have no relationship with power. Again you would think a former engineer would know better.
LOL. MIT actually does have a pretty good reputation here and deservedly so, I think. You don't want to know what that MIT grad thinks of your abilities. You misconstrue and misrepresent almost everything but I think it would be better to stay with the actual data brought up in this thread than personally attack another person not here to defend himself.
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  #1793  
Old 02-11-13, 18:07
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LOL. MIT actually does have a pretty good reputation here and deservedly so, I think. You don't want to know what that MIT grad thinks of your abilities. You misconstrue and misrepresent almost everything but I think it would be better to stay with the actual data brought up in this thread than personally attack another person not here to defend himself.
Well like your personal attacks on us I don't really care about your opinion or his. If we stick to the facts then crank length isn't all that important. The only person who says it is is the person with a history of starting Spam threads and has an adjustable crank length product to sell.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #1794  
Old 02-14-13, 01:37
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A new anecdotal report: A local long-time PowerCranker had a problem with his PowerCranks and he came by the office to get it fixed. He has had his PowerCranks for 8 years and has over 100,000 miles on them. We think his is pretty well adapted (He said it took him 18 months to get fully adapted - so much for those 6 week studies). We fixed his issue and then talked to him about trying shorter cranks. It took a lot of talking (he simply couldn't believe shorter could be better) but we convinced him to try a week at 150 and report back, so we set him up and he rode off on 150 cranks. He emailed when he got home that he already loved the 150's as being so much easier on the HF's, especially in the aero position. The real test will be when he climbs Mt Diablo. He is now ready to experiment with 130's. I will let you know what he further reports.
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  #1795  
Old 02-14-13, 01:53
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Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
A new anecdotal report: A local long-time PowerCranker had a problem with his PowerCranks and he came by the office to get it fixed. He has had his PowerCranks for 8 years and has over 100,000 miles on them. We think his is pretty well adapted (He said it took him 18 months to get fully adapted - so much for those 6 week studies). We fixed his issue and then talked to him about trying shorter cranks. It took a lot of talking (he simply couldn't believe shorter could be better) but we convinced him to try a week at 150 and report back, so we set him up and he rode off on 150 cranks. He emailed when he got home that he already loved the 150's as being so much easier on the HF's, especially in the aero position. The real test will be when he climbs Mt Diablo. He is now ready to experiment with 130's. I will let you know what he further reports.
So what part of that advertorial (aka spam) is meant to provide evidence that crank length is important?

Saying that riders I coach won 21 titles at the Canterbury Track Cycling champs and I attribute it to not paying attention to crank length is just as meaningful a statement.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #1796  
Old 02-14-13, 11:39
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(He said it took him 18 months to get fully adapted - so much for those 6 week studies). We fixed his issue and then talked to him about trying shorter cranks. It took a lot of talking (he simply couldn't believe shorter could be better) but we convinced him to try a week at 150 and report back, so we set him up and he rode off on 150 cranks. He emailed when he got home that he already loved the 150's as being so much easier on the HF's, especially in the aero position.

When a rider is fully adapted after that 18 months of exclusive PC use, where in the pedaling circle can the PC advantage be found, where does he gain that extra 40% crank torque.
  #1797  
Old 02-14-13, 16:25
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When a rider is fully adapted after that 18 months of exclusive PC use, where in the pedaling circle can the PC advantage be found, where does he gain that extra 40% crank torque.
The advantage, I believe, occurs at every point around the circle. From making the muscle forces more tangential, to increasing forces across the top and bottom, to increasing the unweighting on the backstroke. It isn't one thing, it is lots of small things that add together to become a big thing.
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  #1798  
Old 02-18-13, 02:56
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You know, if a thread is to be locked "in the name of science" you would only be able to discuss pretty much nothing. . . .

Anyhow, I am somewhat appalled that you, as a moderator, would even consider this request based upon the science. These threads would be much better (I doubt we would be above 100 posts and off the front page a long time ago) if you would simply ban those who only know how to respond with personal attacks. Where is the science there?

. . .Your consideration of this is especially troubling in view of the fact that I have been told that several of the "big boys" either are manufacturing shorter cranks now (Rotor) or expect to soon be manufacturing shorter cranks. Something must be making them do this but, I suspect, it sure as heck is not the naysayers who hang out here. Will you still ban crank length discussions when Shimano starts making 150 mm cranks? Or, is it only my input that is troubling?
No, the question isn't "science" at all. The question is simply this "Is this forum being used to promote or sell a product where the poster has a personal (and financial) interest in selling that product." You are the main poster in two threads, both of which are now more about your product and theories then they are about the thread title. I could, I suppose, close the threads because they have gone hopelessly off-topic. Oddly enough, the other thread you started ("Pedaling technique"), you began with a post where you were correct in saying that the significance was far greater than for just your product. But, that thread degenerated into what is primarily a discussion of your theories and product. And using the forum to spam for a product is, last time I checked, in violation of the TOS.

These two threads are borderline in my thinking at this moment. I am not yet convinced that they are in violation of the TOS.

As for being "appalled" that I would take what a poster says into consideration, would you rather I acted out-of-hand, in a dictatorial fashion? I take everything into consideration - some things get more consideration than others - depending on the credibility of the source, and the reasoning offered. That includes what you have to say.
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  #1799  
Old 02-18-13, 07:27
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These two threads are borderline in my thinking at this moment. I am not yet convinced that they are in violation of the TOS.
Both threads start with a little advertorial leading to a link on his commercial site. Smells like SPAM to me. Frank has been banned from other sites like Slowtwitch for doing this.
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Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #1800  
Old 02-18-13, 13:44
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Let me be Frank:
Click > Xtri (your source for triathlon news and content) Chats With Power Cranks Inventor Frank Day
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Last edited by FitSsikS; 02-18-13 at 14:11. Reason: moved some words
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