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  #71  
Old 02-12-13, 11:41
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Descender Descender is offline
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Oh I'm sure they'll use that kind of arguments if they ever feel forced to accept homosexuality, but that won't make them any better arguments.

Projecting modern views into 2000-year-old texts is intellectually dishonest. I especially loved when he justified his defence of homosexual relationships and marriages saying "Paul never addressed the issue of loving homosexual relationships itself". Well, d'uh! Isn't he the one telling us we have to read the Bible in its historical context? Apparently that is only to be done whenever it fits his agenda.
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  #72  
Old 02-12-13, 12:55
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A cartoon calendar of Berlin-based editorial "Espresso" has prophecized the precise date of Benedict XVI's retirement. The drawing by Katharina Greve shows the pontifex, on February 10th, as he celebrates a lotto-win.

"Holy moly", the text reads, "Tomorrow I quit".


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  #73  
Old 02-12-13, 16:38
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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Come to think of it, Descender, I'm really not in the mood for an in-depth debate, so if you haven't done your Reasoned Decision yet, no need to spend any time on it. But if you've already put any effort into it, go ahead - I'm morally obliged to participate in the debate if that's the case.

I do think he's projecting his own 21st century views, but I also think his argument sort of works if you get rid of the projection too.
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  #74  
Old 02-12-13, 17:33
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Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
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Originally Posted by gregod View Post
maybe i missed something. what do you mean? suffer? what are you agreeing with?
As to suffer, I don't want him to be in pain the last days of his life. That's all I meant.

As to agreeing with Hrotha, his first post on how the concentration of the Church could be moved forward, such as allowing priests to marry, women to be priests, and a more balanced approach to homosexuality. Many more issues that I feel the Church is still a century behind common sense.

But that's just my opinion.
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  #75  
Old 02-12-13, 18:34
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Before you go one, -snip-

It's a little late for that now isn't it?!

Might I just point out that had your "Roman friends" fully embraced El Gabal and his appointed high priest and earthly representative, myself, back in the day, you wouldn't be in this mess! I could have nipped that little Christianity thing right in the bud. And all I asked for in return was a little worship ... a little ...respect.

But nooooooo!!

Instead I got dragged through the streets and thrown into the Tiber!!

Alas, I should probably take some of the blame ...

But I won't! Because it's all their fault!!
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  #76  
Old 02-12-13, 18:44
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It's a little late for that now isn't it?!

Might I just point out that had your "Roman friends" fully embraced El Gabal and his appointed high priest and earthly representative, myself, back in the day, you wouldn't be in this mess! I could have nipped that little Christianity thing right in the bud. And all I asked for in return was a little worship ... a little ...respect.

But nooooooo!!

Instead I got dragged through the streets and thrown into the Tiber!!

Alas, I should probably take some of the blame ...

But I won't! Because it's all their fault!!
That's because your boy tainted the imperial court with all those shameless oriental perversions, and he was fond of dressing like a woman with it!

On the other hand Syrio-Bablonian sun god worship eventually went mainstream, albeit under a new supernatural fad, with all its hidden rites, centered upon the Christos.

So actually it's not their fault, it was just marketed better.
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  #77  
Old 02-12-13, 19:00
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
Come to think of it, Descender, I'm really not in the mood for an in-depth debate, so if you haven't done your Reasoned Decision yet, no need to spend any time on it. But if you've already put any effort into it, go ahead - I'm morally obliged to participate in the debate if that's the case.

I do think he's projecting his own 21st century views, but I also think his argument sort of works if you get rid of the projection too.
I haven't done my Reasoned Decision (lol) yet, but I will do it, sorry. Feel free to ignore it though, I'm sure I'll find other platforms to spread my message.
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  #78  
Old 02-12-13, 19:16
Elagabalus Elagabalus is offline
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That's because your boy tainted the imperial court with all those shameless oriental perversions, and he was fond of dressing like a woman with it! ...
Ah ... yes, the Historia Augusta. The absolute pinnacle of historical scholarship and probably edited by the Ancient World's equivalent of Sally Jenkins!. Those hacks! Lies, all lies ...
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  #79  
Old 02-12-13, 23:55
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I'm not really sure how to react to this news. I cannot decide whether it is, in effect, inconsequential, structurally inconsequential yet highly personally relevant to many or an extremely important world event. Even after I've resolved that, I'm not sure what position I should take on it. On the one hand, he is not the church, so I don't feel I should hold him responsible for the policies and actions of the church, yet on the other by virtue of his position he takes on a lot of responsibility for those policies and actions.

I am not a religious person, and I have never been very good friends with a devout Catholic (to my knowledge). Certainly not a devout Catholic with whom I have had discussion about religion. I find myself, at this point, very aware that I have little conception of how a devout Catholic feels, emotionally towards the Pope. If one of the ones here would be prepared to describe that for me, I would be very grateful.

I suppose deeper into this the two big questions are: why has this happened and what is it going to change? Despite the speculation regarding an impeding scandal breaking, I feel it's unlikely. The fact of the matter is that we can keep a very ill person alive for a lot longer than we used to be able to, and that the job of Pope involved a lot of traveling - possibly more than it ever has. As for what it's going to change, I myself doubt it will change anything - the views of a Pope are, almost by definition, reflective of the views of the cardinals, and they've not changed much recently. In my view, this should be seen as merely indicative of the world's technological progress and the gradual modernisation of the church - nothing more.
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Old 02-13-13, 01:04
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Originally Posted by Caruut View Post
I'm not really sure how to react to this news. I cannot decide whether it is, in effect, inconsequential, structurally inconsequential yet highly personally relevant to many or an extremely important world event. Even after I've resolved that, I'm not sure what position I should take on it. On the one hand, he is not the church, so I don't feel I should hold him responsible for the policies and actions of the church, yet on the other by virtue of his position he takes on a lot of responsibility for those policies and actions.

I am not a religious person, and I have never been very good friends with a devout Catholic (to my knowledge). Certainly not a devout Catholic with whom I have had discussion about religion. I find myself, at this point, very aware that I have little conception of how a devout Catholic feels, emotionally towards the Pope. If one of the ones here would be prepared to describe that for me, I would be very grateful.

I suppose deeper into this the two big questions are: why has this happened and what is it going to change? Despite the speculation regarding an impeding scandal breaking, I feel it's unlikely. The fact of the matter is that we can keep a very ill person alive for a lot longer than we used to be able to, and that the job of Pope involved a lot of traveling - possibly more than it ever has. As for what it's going to change, I myself doubt it will change anything - the views of a Pope are, almost by definition, reflective of the views of the cardinals, and they've not changed much recently. In my view, this should be seen as merely indicative of the world's technological progress and the gradual modernisation of the church - nothing more.
It's a tricky one Caruut and as a non catholic probably a discussion best staying out of, maybe you to?. There are most likely many on here with a deeply Catholic faith. I'll dip in as a Mod but won't proffer any view other than moderator.
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