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  #401  
Old 02-08-13, 08:38
sugarman sugarman is offline
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Originally Posted by zebedee View Post
How do we know the TUE system isn't being abused? Who is skipping tests? How many positive are there followed by B sample negatives? How many provisional suspensions are actually being served and for what violations? None of this is known. It's as though we're all the little people whom this information shouldn't concern.
I do remember reading somewhere that tennis has a large discrepancy between initial adverse analytical findings and actual doping sanctions. (Unfortunately can't find the source at the moment, but will post it if I come across it again).

Obviously without the ITF revealing why positive findings are going without sanctions its hard to know what to make of it, but could suggest things like TUE abuse...
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  #402  
Old 02-08-13, 11:44
SundayRider SundayRider is offline
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All the quarter finalists at least should be tested at every single tournament on tour level? does this happen now?
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  #403  
Old 02-08-13, 12:38
sugarman sugarman is offline
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All the quarter finalists at least should be tested at every single tournament on tour level? does this happen now?
Agree, for in-competition, this should be an absolute minimum. I'd be surprised if it happens at every tournament though, as ITF testing includes challenger level events, qualifiers, davis and fed cup etc and the grand total number of tests is recent years has been around 2000 per year (this is men's and women's combined).

Its likely at Grand Slams all quarter finalists get tested eventually, see e.g
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blog...lian-open.html

In my opinion, tennis's greatest flaw in testing though is the almost non-existent amount of OOC testing. In 2011 there was only 21 OOC blood tests and 195 OOC urine tests across the whole year, including both men and women. (http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/statistics.asp) This in a sport where preparation has got to be absolutely critical and players constantly bang on about how hard they trained in the fairly short off-season.
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  #404  
Old 02-08-13, 14:16
zebedee zebedee is offline
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Thanks.

THASP has all the vagaries of the ITF pretty much mapped out in full. It's pretty much the established reference resource for tennis doping now. I'm pretty sure it's helped to trigger a number of the articles we are now seeing in both national and tennis media so well done to those people behind it.
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  #405  
Old 02-12-13, 09:04
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Roger Federer gave an interview to Dutch television during the Rotterdam ATP-500 tournament in Rotterdam talking, among others, about doping. Here's a quick transcript of the interview in which he talks as a cyclist during the Armstrong-years:

Q: ĘThere's been said a lot about doping lately, for example by Djokovic and Murray. As the head of the player's council, what are your thoughts about what they've said; do you agree with them?"

RF: "Well, I don't exactly know everything they've said or how many interviews they've done, but obviously the majority of what's happened is that the players have been asked, you know, about their opinions about the cases that have just transpired in the press, you know. So it's, ehm, it's been difficult times for sports overall, because [of] a few things that have happened. So what is the process now for tennis, needs to be to protect our sport as much as we can; that the integrity is there; that we do play each other tough and fair; so there is just no cheating going on and for that we need tough testing. I have many different ideas what we should be doing, but I think we also need a bit more funding to be able to test the players more frequently. And then I think we should save the urine and the blood samples for as long as we can, that would also scare away people of trying to cheat. So it's justreally important to make sure we try everything as much and as hard as we can to maintain the intregity for the sport.

Q: "We all know what happened in cycling; in any way, are you concerned that the same thing can happen to tennis?"

RF: "Not really, but you never know. I don't know what the other players are doing. I believe the sport is extremely clean and I would be exteremely shocked and disappointed and upset and sad if something massive would break out in our sport. Up to that day, we don't know and to me it seems like this sport in particular, tennis, or soccer as well, are definately sports you can do without any doping and all those things. So for me it's, eh, I don't want to be na´ve, but sometimes I feel things are better than they actually are, so I always get very upset when I hear about cheaters in sport."

The original interview can be found at http://nos.nl/video/473092-federer-m...t-bewaren.html, the first doping question is asked at ~2:23.
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  #406  
Old 02-12-13, 12:05
Revealer Revealer is offline
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To be honest, in other sources, Federer is quoted differently. He doesn't sound like a cyclist from the Armstrong years when he says that he wasn't blood tested at all after the Australian Open and when he calls for the introduction of the blood passport.

http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/192756.html

Quote:
"We should do more in terms of blood testing," the world No 2 said at the Rotterdam World Tennis tournament. "It's important to make sure that tennis is credible and clean to a maximum. We don't want players even getting the idea to cheat. "But there also will be more funding needed to make all the tests possible. The grand slam tournaments should help to finance that as it is in their best interest to keep the sport clean and credible."

"A blood passport will be necessary as some substances can't be discovered right now," the 31-year-old added. "But there also should be more blood tests and out-of-competition controls in tennis. "I didn't get tested on blood after the Australian Open and I told the responsible people over there that it was a big surprise for me.
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  #407  
Old 02-12-13, 15:10
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Originally Posted by Revealer View Post
To be honest, in other sources, Federer is quoted differently. He doesn't sound like a cyclist from the Armstrong years when he says that he wasn't blood tested at all after the Australian Open and when he calls for the introduction of the blood passport.
To be honest, I did not paraphrase, but literally quoted his own answers. You can listen back the interview if you want, just follow the link I've provided (the interview is in English). The only thing I've changed is ignoring the "you know"'s he speaks twice in every sentence.

He's convinced, or so he states, that tennis is one of the cleanest sports around, but it's good to have more tests. It's exactly like all those cyclists saying "Cycling is clean now, but, hey, let's have more tests" during the post-1998 years. They even donated (Armstrong) money for testing equipment.
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  #408  
Old 02-13-13, 13:57
zebedee zebedee is offline
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Federer for some time now has had blood samples frozen for analysis at some undetermined point which rather suggests he isn't afraid of the future. Public pronouncements like his, in my opinion, should not be taken at face value. Like a lot of us, he may, among his rivals, suspect Nadal of doping and that Djokovic started a programme himself in 2010/2011 to catch up and supersede Nadal, with Murray following in the wake of Djokovic. He just isn't letting on.

To my eyes, Murray looks the most obviously 'made' of the quartet as, unlike Nadal, we know he had a fairly puny frame. He actually keeled over in one match as a teenage pro - playing Johansson at Queens in 2005. He had no real strength or stamina at all in those years, playing a dinky, defence-oriented game that relied a lot on bunting the ball back. Today he is a tennis power player with a physique to match and the LTA alone has spent well over a million pounds on his development.

Last edited by zebedee; 02-13-13 at 13:59.
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  #409  
Old 02-13-13, 18:02
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Briant_Gumble Briant_Gumble is offline
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Originally Posted by zebedee View Post

To my eyes, Murray looks the most obviously 'made' of the quartet as, unlike Nadal, we know he had a fairly puny frame. He actually keeled over in one match as a teenage pro - playing Johansson at Queens in 2005. He had no real strength or stamina at all in those years, playing a dinky, defence-oriented game that relied a lot on bunting the ball back. Today he is a tennis power player with a physique to match and the LTA alone has spent well over a million pounds on his development.
This is a very good/important point for anyone who hasn't seen the match. Murrays display of physical conditioning in 2005 was one of the worst displays I have seen by a professional tennis player ever.

Every year at Wimbledon anonymous Brits are given wild cards to play at Wimbledon most of them don't establish themselves on the tour and are never heard of again.

I have never seen any of these fledgling pros show as bad stamina as Murray did when they are forced to play three set matches, though none of them are as good shot makers as Murray is/was at that age.

He had decent power at that age (due to technique) but a very thin physique.

I have gained about 7kg since I was 17 (mid 20s now) as other people in this thread have. What's surprising about Murray is his weight gain came with a dramatic increase in stamina.

I would not expect a long distance runner to gain any weight between 17 and 25 (maybe a couple of pounds) and in tournaments a tennis players exercise regime is not that different.

Last edited by Briant_Gumble; 02-13-13 at 18:08.
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  #410  
Old 02-13-13, 19:45
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Originally Posted by Briant_Gumble View Post
This is a very good/important point for anyone who hasn't seen the match. Murrays display of physical conditioning in 2005 was one of the worst displays I have seen by a professional tennis player ever.

Every year at Wimbledon anonymous Brits are given wild cards to play at Wimbledon most of them don't establish themselves on the tour and are never heard of again.

I have never seen any of these fledgling pros show as bad stamina as Murray did when they are forced to play three set matches, though none of them are as good shot makers as Murray is/was at that age.

He had decent power at that age (due to technique) but a very thin physique.

I have gained about 7kg since I was 17 (mid 20s now) as other people in this thread have. What's surprising about Murray is his weight gain came with a dramatic increase in stamina.

I would not expect a long distance runner to gain any weight between 17 and 25 (maybe a couple of pounds) and in tournaments a tennis players exercise regime is not that different.
Really, so tennis players basically run 120 miles a week?

I doubt the training regimes are similar at all. I am not saying Murray is or isnt doping, but the line of argument is that this is what he was like at 17 is nonsensical bull imo.
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