For the "pedaling technique doesn't matter crowd" - Page 111 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Form & Fitness > General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1101  
Old 02-17-13, 01:43
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachFergie View Post
The object of the study was to see if the Gimmickcrank was a better training stimulus than regular training. It wasn't.

Both Bohm and Fernandez-Pena did show a change in pedalling technique was achieved. Fernandez-Pena showed that when subjects go from Gimmickcranks to normal cranks any changes in muscle activation are rapidly lost.

Muscle activation in the Graded Exercise Test was done using normal cranks which explains why there was no change in iEMG.

Several well performed studies now showing that training with a Gimmickcrank is not an effective training stimulus.
I seem to remember that back in the 70's was when a term was coined to describe your manner of interaction/discussion. Says something about how old I am. It was called" "broken record". If the shoe fits…
__________________
Life is short, both reading my posts and training with PowerCranks will make it seem longer
  #1102  
Old 02-17-13, 11:04
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
Now, let me get this straight. You are saying that because I say it takes a reasonably long time and a lot of hard work to see any benefit from my product that I must be making it up because other products (that presumably do other things) claim to or have shown improvement in short periods of time? Is that what you just said?


Where in the pedaling circle does the hardest work have to be done ? Does this hard work improve performance or is it something that has to be done only because you are using more awkward and unsuitable training equipment.
  #1103  
Old 02-17-13, 18:42
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
Where in the pedaling circle does the hardest work have to be done ? Does this hard work improve performance or is it something that has to be done only because you are using more awkward and unsuitable training equipment.
The "hardest part" of the pedaling circle would be the weakest part or the part for which you are under trained. For most new PowerCrankers the weakest part is usually the last half of the back stroke. Once that part of the circle has been trained appropriately then there is no "hardest" part of the circle. PowerCranks are only "awkward and unsuitable" when one hasn't trained on them. Once one is appropriately trained on them they are no harder nor no more awkward nor no more "unsuitable" than any other bicycle crank.
__________________
Life is short, both reading my posts and training with PowerCranks will make it seem longer
  #1104  
Old 02-17-13, 20:42
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
I seem to remember that back in the 70's was when a term was coined to describe your manner of interaction/discussion. Says something about how old I am. It was called" "broken record". If the shoe fits…
You repeat the lie, I repeat the data showing it is a lie!
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #1105  
Old 02-18-13, 11:30
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
The "hardest part" of the pedaling circle would be the weakest part or the part for which you are under trained. For most new PowerCrankers the weakest part is usually the last half of the back stroke. Once that part of the circle has been trained appropriately then there is no "hardest" part of the circle. PowerCranks are only "awkward and unsuitable" when one hasn't trained on them. Once one is appropriately trained on them they are no harder nor no more awkward nor no more "unsuitable" than any other bicycle crank.


That explains why PC riders revert back to their natural style when they return to using standard cranks. Why would they continue to put this extra workload on their weaker muscles when there is nothing to be gained, the down moving leg can send the rising crank under the unweighted leg in this sector at no energy cost.
  #1106  
Old 02-18-13, 18:13
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
…the down moving leg can send the rising crank under the unweighted leg in this sector at no energy cost.
True if one is only looking at the energy cost because the potential energy put into the leg moving it up is returned on that down stroke as that potential energy is converted into kinetic energy. The problem is, the energy it takes to get the leg up robs from the energy available to get to the wheel. Therefore, if that energy can come from other muscles then all the energy put in by the pushing muscles can go to the wheel. It isn't important if one is only interested in riding around the neighborhood to get a little exercise. It is important if one is interested in maximizing power and efficiency for the purposes of racing.
__________________
Life is short, both reading my posts and training with PowerCranks will make it seem longer
  #1107  
Old 02-18-13, 20:15
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
True if one is only looking at the energy cost because the potential energy put into the leg moving it up is returned on that down stroke as that potential energy is converted into kinetic energy. The problem is, the energy it takes to get the leg up robs from the energy available to get to the wheel. Therefore, if that energy can come from other muscles then all the energy put in by the pushing muscles can go to the wheel. It isn't important if one is only interested in riding around the neighborhood to get a little exercise. It is important if one is interested in maximizing power and efficiency for the purposes of racing.


When (as i said) the rising leg is unweighted ahead of the rising pedal there can be no loss of power in the downstroke. Powercrankers have the task of dragging the pedal and crank round that difficult curve from 9 to 12 o'c. You don't maximize power with PC's because contrary to what you believe, that dragging of the crank up and over results in a loss of torque where it matters most around 3 o'c. How do you explain that reverting back to their natural pedaling style on their return to standard cranks. There are thousands of PC users, why don't you get some of them to describe on these forums how and where their power has been maximized by their use of PC's.
  #1108  
Old 02-19-13, 01:11
FrankDay FrankDay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: N. California
Posts: 2,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
There are thousands of PC users, why don't you get some of them to describe on these forums how and where their power has been maximized by their use of PC's.
When they do show up to talk about the product they typically get beat about the head and shoulders by the usual suspects. A better question, of those thousands of users, where are those who feel the product is useless and a complete scam? Really, the only people bad mouthing the product are those who haven't used it to any extent. That goes for you also as you really don't have a clue what the product does or doesn't do or what regular crankers do or don't do (and, I suspect, that includes you - even though you think you know what you are doing).
__________________
Life is short, both reading my posts and training with PowerCranks will make it seem longer
  #1109  
Old 02-19-13, 06:51
CoachFergie's Avatar
CoachFergie CoachFergie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 2,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coapman View Post
There are thousands of PC users, why don't you get some of them to describe on these forums how and where their power has been maximized by their use of PC's.
Asking Frank or a Gimmickcranker what they think is only good for amusement value.

Lets hear about the Gimmickcrankers who have been using the product with a power meter and actually seen a quantifiable improvement. The only ones we have heard of is a chap in Spain whose power files had clearly been Doctored (pun intended Frank) and a Engineer (MIT no less) who didn't understand he needed to calibrate his power meter and wasn't suspicious that his 60min power from a rollers based test was higher than his 20min power from an uphill time trial.
__________________
Hamish Ferguson
http://coachfergblog.blogspot.co.nz/

Power Meters like Powercranks don't improve performance one bit. But at least with a Power Meter you can see yourself not improving because of it
  #1110  
Old 02-19-13, 11:30
coapman coapman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankDay View Post
When they do show up to talk about the product they typically get beat about the head and shoulders by the usual suspects. A better question, of those thousands of users, where are those who feel the product is useless and a complete scam? Really, the only people bad mouthing the product are those who haven't used it to any extent. That goes for you also as you really don't have a clue what the product does or doesn't do or what regular crankers do or don't do (and, I suspect, that includes you - even though you think you know what you are doing).
I have never said the product was useless, what I did say was it should be ideal for teaching riders the objectives of the circuilar style and how to unweight the rising pedal. When after a few days of PC use, a rider returns to standard cranks and his normal style, he should find his idling leg creates a resistance free path for the idling pedal. But exclusive use of PC's over long periods will have a negative effect as P. Holman discovered, by weakening your more important downstroke muscles. Therefore PC style pedaling cannot increase power output, while you may gain minimal torque in other sectors, you will lose more in the down stroke sector because continuous equal concentration has to be given to both legs in all sectors regardless of the power than can be produced in those sectors.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.